United StatesThe site has a stickied thread for this sort of discussion: http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/63nr7
I consider the thread title here far too publicly aggressive to be constructive.
I'm locking this thread (primarily since I don't have the ability change the title through the site front-end) and I will respond to some of your points here in the other thread after finishing some other site tasks: http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/63nr7
TheKombatKing: It looks like you were added.
Direnta: I added you as a regular moderator since the run has been pending a while.
Emerald: I added the other user that runs the game since this is your first run on the site.
madnessHank: Added due to inactivity.
joesea3: Bumped the mod up to a super.
kirch: It looks like this was added.
RoHiSakk: It looks like you were added.
ShikenNuggets: Moved stuff around due to inactivity, feel free to add other people.
ItsMaximum: Added due to inactivity.
SuriiK-: Updated to super mod.
Trisepmaster: 3 of the 4 mods are active, please discuss it with them.
23Banzaj: Added due to inactivity.
LucasGX: This seems fine since the moderator is somewhat inactive and doesn't have a run for the game.
Racingmonster: I'm not jumping in front of the 3 moderators on this one. If any of the other staff members wants to try to sort this out, they are welcome to try.
KevínDieSeegurke: The moderator was online 5 days ago. I'd make a more clear post on the game forums discussing the version differences observed.
Freddie: I removed you. For future reference you are able to self-remove.
Manix: I'd recommend making a thread for the game discussing proposed moderation changes. In a game with this many moderators/runs I can't make this change without more concurrence.
RogueLink/Broedgeman: This seems fine.
Prim053: It looks like you were added. Generally you should discuss this with the moderator first.
LukeKlutz: Added due to pending runs/inactivity.
chilladin: I don't think I can actually do that right now. The site front-end currently prevents that to limit people spoofing other users.
Kenanelite123: Can't do spaces in usernames.
coolestto: It looks like this was sorted out.
animatedtwig: I'll bump you up to a super.
duders719: Category requests should go through game moderators and game forums.
rosden_shadow: Added.
MariOomega: Added.
intronus: Discuss it with the moderators please.
ZexanGER: Please discuss it with the current moderator.
erose524: I'll give this a bit longer to resolve. If it doesn't we can look at adding you. Note from ROMaster2: You're free to respond again to make sure you don't go unnoticed next time around.
Broedgeman: Series moderation really only allows new games to be added by series mods, which can also be requested through the game request form. There's not a huge incentive to move around series mods. I'd recommend discussing it with the user first.
Jmak: Users for that game need to come to some consensus on the forums for what they want done with moderation. I think it had two moderators then one opted out or got removed or something. ROMaster2 can handle this if he wants, or I'll try to remember to look at it again on my next pass.
HowDenKing: I tend to think user pages shouldn't even have access to that because it's a pain to moderate, but I don't know that I'm in the majority. I think themes in general are about 80-90% awful though, so I personally use the setting to shut them off.
TheKombatKing: I'm going to let ROMaster2 look into this since he already mentioned it.
Andre_Williams: Discuss it with the super mods please.
Trisepmaster: Added due to inactivity.
loabs: Added another user that asked.
Justin_Lua: Discuss it with the current mod and/or do a run.
Nialle: This is fine, it would've been deleted in a couple days due to not being set up.
TheZZZExt.: http://www.speedrun.com/requestgame
The above are done. Apparently I can't click checkboxes right sometimes.
VanishCapSM64: There is a user named "vanish" with runs, so I won't make that change.
Caught up to here.
HooplaFish: Discuss it with the moderators. Try the game forums first.
Alcowe: The moderator was online yesterday it seems. Try the game's forum for discussion.
AquaBlake: This seems fine.
scrubcasual: It looks like your run was added.
Superal: I added you as a regular mod because you have multiple runs and it seems like the forum feedback wasn't being addressed.
ReverseVideo: I added two mods based on the game's forum thread.
Toxic_Pyro12: Please discuss it with the current moderator.
Saber1658: Please discuss it with the current mod, they are highly active. I'd recommend just doing a run first.
MrVirusYT: It looks like you were added.
EnderCharizard: It looks like you were added.
Xcvazer: It looks like you were bumped to super. I also removed the highly inactive mod.
tselis: It looks like you were added.
TheZombieMan16: I'd recommend waiting a bit longer or posting on the game's forums. It's not a requirement that moderators verify runs every time they visit the site.
madnessHank: Added due to inactivity.
LittleTub: Added due to inactivity.
Keen: Please make a post on the game forum discussing the situation. I don't know anything about this game, and it could just be an honest mistake.
Socculd82: It looks like you were added.
Rainbow_Lemon: If you want a separate page, submit a game request and add a note explaining the situation.
ReverseVideo: I've been using webgame as a sort of "web available indie/freeware" tag as well due to current lack of that. You can packagae flash games as downloadable windows executables pretty easily these days, so there's not much difference.
SpiderSponge87: The first one is "standalone expansion", which I don't know if that qualifies.
Just some opinions of mine; still looking for feedback from additional users.
A: Should moderators be allowed to track runs of people who don't use the site? There's some discussion around this in the previous posts
- If the site is "opt-in only", the records will be further from accurate than if it is not. "Best attempt at accurate representation of times" is already lost. The holder of the best time may not use the site.
B: I'm not a fan of the sentiment of "having opted in means you can't ever opt out" It may persuade people to stop submitting because they don't want to abide by a future circumstance where they now can't opt out. Right now the existing worst case circumstance is "If you didn't opt in, you still can't opt out."
C: Not having a site-wide rule (or even guidelines) on this actually makes the boards less consistent on this matter. Half the boards might have forced accuracy, and the other half are not forcing that accuracy. The users and runners get confused because it varies so much game to game and the expectation is scattered. Why should someone be allowed to remove their run from one game but not another just based on the moderator's preference?
D : If the time is anonymously there but the video isn't shown anywhere, site users don't get any significant level of confidence that the run is legitimate. They can never see it and it's only known behind closed doors, so to speak. It may be accurate to the people that run the boards, but it's not perceivable as accurate to the people that view the boards. There's significant value in having a publicly available video for viewers to scrutinize.
E: For those who aren't aware: Copyright basically says don't upload someone else's video without their permission. Anyone can link to a thing on the Internet, but the subject here is more of "should we be doing that"
Racingmonster: You already don't go by that on other sites, and I think a lot of other sites would disallow that. This doesn't pass the common sense test.
I caught up to here.
I did a comparison of Auchgard's any% Normal run vs mine out of curiosity to see where I lost so much time.
Enter Mild Town 5.9 11.9 (+6.0) (Kirk lost 6 seconds because he didn't skip cutscene) Leave Mild Town 42.2 46.9 (+4.9) (Auchgard's Mild Town was kind of bad by his own statement.) Leave Forest 1:02.1 1:07.0 (+4.9) Leave Fall Town 1:42.5 1:49.4 (+6.9) (Kirk lost 2 seconds to first fight) Leave Centaur Cave 2:02.9 2:13.0 (+10.1) (Auchgard had better fights.) Leave Burn Town 2:50.3 3:03.0 (+12.7) (Auchgard had better fights.) Leave Pyramid 3:33.1 3:50.5 (+17.4) (Auchgard had better fights.) Leave Moon Town 4:18.8 4:36.8 (+18.0) Enter Warp Room 4:56.9 5:15.5 (+18.6) Final Heart Door 6:48.7 7:05.3 (+16.6) (Auchgard uses Spider Cave first route, we both make some time consuming mistakes though.) Phase 1 7:09.9 7:25.2 (+15.3) (Auchgard grabs an extra flask here) Phase 2 7:29.0 7:43.3 (+14.3) Phase 3 7:47.5 7:58.3 (+10.8 ) (Kirk spends 3 flasks) Phase 4 8:29.1 8:45.1 (+16.0) (Auchgard has an extra 4 flasks.)
Conclusions: 1: Hit escape to skip opening cutscene and save 6 seconds lol. 2: Based on this comparison I still think there's a good chance Spider Cave last might be a couple seconds faster. Analyzing where Auchgard and I made mistakes in that section might give a more definitive answer. Darko's run does this route as well. 3: Auchgard spends about 1.5 seconds on the flask at the end. Auchgard's extra 4 flasks on this attempt save about 5.2 seconds or 1.3 seconds per flask. There's variability, so it's extremely close either way. Looking at the boss health memory and analyzing damage per second might give the real answer, but we're talking about a couple tenths either way. 4: Spending the flasks on the final phase probably makes it more consistent and probably faster overall, because the fight is shorter and you don't need to dodge as much.
Seems right to me. Also I think there's value to the viewer in proving the criteria was reached without ridiculous scrutiny of the run.
I didn't play through the various categories enough to have a good recollection of all the weirdness with percentages and extra bosses and whatever else.
I added Auchgard as mod since he seems to know the categories better than I do. Feel free to set up the timing rules as they make sense per category.
The original comment was this: ""I feel like time ending upon getting in the carriage after beating That Guy makes more sense, because that activates the ending that shows you your 102% completion. That being said, this is a 19:02 if time ending remains at defeating That Guy.""
From time to time users with varying reasons request their times not be listed on a board. Various communities have handled this in different ways, which leads to inconsistency from the site perspective. There has not historically been a site expectation or a rule on this topic.
Issues have occurred relating to this from time to time in the past, and issues have occurred on this topic prior to this site even existing. A common response to the situation seems to be the user taking the run down, or a substantial disagreement developing.
A rule on this would be worded something like the following: "If a runner requests their time not be listed on the boards, don't list it." Should the site have a rule like this?
Xanlantos: The super mod logged in since then I think.
Razzourus: I pinged the mod.
Yoda1127: If you do a run, and they still aren't active, I'll add you.
CriscoWild: I responded to your DM. If you want to request things through the game request form feel free. I'm not going to locate people to moderate games they don't play, it's not practical.
Royal64: Please discuss it with the moderators.
Racingmonster: I guess we reached some sort of conclusion. Also, don't post your legally problematic videos on this site. I'm sure there are plenty of other places on the Internet happy for that content.
Ichimarnold: Added due to inactivity.
Scherzo: It looks like you were added on one and I added you on the other.
Charlieboy: Added due to inactivity.
Gelly: It looks like your runs were added.
Ltmonkey: Please discuss it with the moderator, he seems active on Twitter.
MarioGalaxy13: Moderation requests go through current moderators. The game has active enough moderators, I don't know that they specifically need more.
Samtastic: Board logistics/category/variable requests go through the board moderators.
RogueLink: Please discuss it with the current mod, he was online recently.
MaxDragonSoul: There are plenty of mods, please discuss it with them.
MrGreen745: If someone who runs it or one of the series moderators wants to mod it, I'll add them.
SnipinG117: Since you have a run pending and moderate a few large boards and the moderators are inactive, I'm okay with this. It's a large board, so a little more weight was necessary.
Bdun4: It looks like he was online recently.
Ariana838: Added you. Feel free to self-remove if that's not what you wanted.
Crispykills: I pinged the mod.
Rapadash0: Added.
HooplaFish: I added the series moderators since they're on most of the games in the series and these are your first couple runs on the site. Official posts in this thread are by admins (badges) or full mods (yellow swords) https://www.speedrun.com/about Posts by other users should only be taken as suggestions or recommendations.
Racingmonster: Apparently the following both work: ᵀᴹ ™ Post exactly which one you want and I'll change it. I'm not gonna promise the site is going to support these forever. Supporting these symbols is just silly.
Manix05: I need the user to post here or contact me via some media attached to his specific account, screenshots are not 100% reliable confirmation to me.
R3daMancY: Went with "DYE", the first one wasn't supported.
expected_lag: I tried to delete the account you created with that name yesterday and then change your name and I ran into the "Failed to rename theme folder." bug. Pac needs to fix this in order to change the name.
I think the ban is warranted for obvious reasons, but the discussion point is certainly a complex issue. I'll start a topic on it this weekend when I have more time. It's not the first time this has been brought up or issues have arisen from similar circumstances.
SpiderSponge87: Setting Base Game is broken. I did the rest.
MrGmG: Category requests go through the moderators of the game.
There are future intentions to implement score as a variable type. It is seen as a shortcoming that the site doesn't support the "timer" type flexibility well enough to do this in a sensible manner. The timer code in general needs refactored as it has a lot of limitations. Lighnat0r was working on this some months back, and to my understanding doesn't seem to be interested in continuing development with the site.
There were discussions with Cyberscore on this topic quite a while back at their request. My general opinion on the topic at the time was that I don't think chaining two sites together via API or whatever else is a good idea, and I think a lot of the obvious shortcomings on our end pertaining to score runs are due primarily to a lack of a proper implementation on our side. People can use whatever site they want, or both.
Most of us were indeed at SGDQ. We're still here keeping the site running. Development has been slow and a lot of practical features aren't happening and it annoys me as well.
