So I have a suggestion for the IL I was thinking instead of the IL being World 1, World 2, World 3, World 4, and World 5, it could go 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 1-4, then World 1 RTA, and maybe you could add the ghost levels to.
I looked at the tools I have and speedrun.com doesn't give me everything I really want.. I'll explain later in this message.
I agree that for this game it would be nice to have ILevel and IWorld. The only problem for individual level is that ... for example.. I do the first level and I get 0:45.487, but someone claim to be world record with a run without timer and recorded with webcam (we could think about you right now lol) it's hard to tell if it's real, because I don't see any timer and the video could be slowed down a little bit, I don't really know how to explain unfortunately as my main language is not english, but sometime if a video has a low framerate, we can also get like a lag and the video became slowed down, so at this moment, I need to play your video and start a manual timer and see what the time is from what I see, you understand ? And if we still use the first level as an example, we clearly need a precise timer because almost everything needs to be calculated by milliseconds, World 1-1 can be done with a time of 0:45.487 and 0:45.456 by someone else, we really need a timer for individual level. And as I said earlier if I made 0:45.487 in W1-1 and by example you claim to be WR for thislevel with 0:45.456, but you don't have a timer and your video is kind of slowed down for X reason, you could lost your WR because of that.. well I think I explain like a big ¤¤¤ right now, but I thiiiinkkk you can understand what I mean lol.
So, finally, what I want to say, is that I need to look at your run with a manual timer and see if it is the 4:16.590 you said, if no, we need to find a way to avoid this problem in the future.
Now, for the category, the only thing I can do with the tools I have seem to be to create W1-1 to W5-4 then W1 to W5 one under another in "Level Leaderboard" the only problem is that there is going to be a lot of element in the tabs, I don't know how it will look. And if we add ghost levels, we double the amount of element, argg, it will look horrible I think, but let's give it a try. I'll do my best to make everything looks great and easy to understand.
I'm not sure we really need Individual Level leaderboards. Steam already has IL leaderboards, and while I realize that 3DS/Wii U players can't use them, I'm just not sure they're really necessary. Realistically, there's probably only going to ever be one or two people on the leaderboard for a given IL on this site. I'd vote to keep these leaderboards just for RTA runs. But that's not my decision, I guess.
I already put IL to the leaderboard, I agree that almost every level will have 1 or 2 people only, but we are only 4 speedrunning this game anyway.
"Steam already has IL leaderboards" Yeah, but Sm64 and ocarina of time speedrun website already exists but there is a page on speedrun.com too, so i don't think steam will stop me from doing it :P
I only want to listen to what you guys want to make this game fun to speedrun :P
The only thing is that ILs really need a timer otherwise it's too hard to tell when you only beat by some frames.
Also for IWs, I saw that Portal didnt start with 1-1, i'm not sure if this is a good thing. In my opinion it should always start with 1-1 2-1 3-1 4-1 and 5-1, and after that do it in the order you want, but it's just me, I agree that it's faster to start with upper levels because you don't have to jump in the level select screen, you just have to go down, but let me know what you guys think
I understand. It can't hurt, anyway. :)
I agree that IW runs should always start on the first level of the world. It just makes sense that way. Anyway, I would argue that it's barely slower if not the same, because the jumping speed is faster than the falling speed.
I would be fine with starting with 1-1 in IW Runs its not a big deal, it'll only be like 2 seconds slower then starting on top but its only 2 seconds so its not a big deal
I would say it's not really about time, it's more about "kind of" logic, Because an any% or 16 levels run start at 1-1 not "5-4 to 1-1", I just think it's a good thing to always start with the first level of a world. I can't really explain my point.. just.. that.. I think that it seems more.. logic. If we go that way, the run you sent me become invalid :s that's why I ask everybody what they think and for the moment it seems that we all agree to start every run in every categories by W1-1 (2-1, 3-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5,1 for IWs)
On a related note, I think we need to decide some rules for powerups for IW/IL runs. I don't think the rule should be no powerups, because that would require you to almost beat the game without any powerups for some levels. I know the gun powerup doesn't really do much, but it is a powerup and it could make some levels a bit faster. I think our options are: 1) Require no powerups, which could be a pain, 2) Let you choose 1 powerup for each level, but you can choose any powerup, or 3) Have no restriction, so you can use the Grannie or any of the other secret characters and thus have all 3 powerups. Personally, I would vote for the #3. I just think it makes the most sense for IW/IL runs.
I agree with Knokoat in that there needs to be some kind of standard for the IW/IL runs, but personally I think that it should be based on what he listed as the second option, allowing only one powerup per level, with the player choosing which powerup to use. This way, players wouldn't necessarily be required to use the Grannie on the levels, since she would obviously be the fastest character, along with the other secret characters. If there was demand for it, we could later add in a separate category for using Grannie, but I think that players shouldn't be constrained just to using the secret characters on a run like this.
If anything, I would think that being able to use the secret characters would be less restricting...
Now that I've thought about it a little more, however, I guess I agree with you. Although most (if not all) of the levels would be fastest with the vertical boost, it still might add some more interest, and you probably don't need all three powerups anyway.
I agree that WL/IL should be without power ups. But for a complete "16 levels" run (or any% or 100%) if we found a good strategy with power ups there would be no problem for using them. But not for IW/IL.
Also, I see talk about new category in almost every message, i don't think having a specefic category for almost everything is a good thing. I added Grannie as a category but I honestly don't think it's a really useful thing. I think we should focus on what we have now, it's already enough for me I think.
I think maybe you misunderstood us. We were thinking that for IL/IW runs, you would be able to choose one powerup. It might make more sense to be without powerups, but think about it: If you wanted to run 5-4, you would have to start a new file and play through Worlds 1 through 4, collecting all the diamonds without ever equipping a powerup. I suppose you could keep one save file dedicated to IL/IW runs and never pick up a powerup in that file.
If you need to go to W5, with or without powerup its about the same time. Playing throught W1 to W4 is about 20 minutes. just keep one save file for that, like your main game where you want to complete the game entirely and do the IL/WL in this one. That's what I would do.
I still think powerup should be used only in complete run, not IL/IW. I think using powerup (especially the high jump one) would make runs less impressive or fun to watch, sometime speedrun is not only about speed :D
It just doesn't really make sense to me to have to keep a whole file just for IL/IWs...not that I use all three files normally. I guess it wouldn't be that bad. I suppose if it's a decision between convenience and more interesting runs, we should probably choose more interesting runs. You're right that the vertical boost powerup makes runs a lot less interesting.
I don't see the problem. If I wake up one day and I say "hey ! I want to improve my W5 !" I'll need a save file anyway or you'll need to to W1 to W5 everyday you want to practice ? doesn't make sense to me lol.
Diddy Kong Racing speedrunners have the first SaveFile for complete speedrun and another one for Individual race without a doubt.
So powerup or not, you do W1 to W5 everytime you play ... or.. you keep a save file for that.. I think the choice is easy lol :P
So I guess we're decided then? No objections? Then we (you :P) should probably put that in the rules for IW/ILs.
One other thing: not something we have to decide on, but I think the IW/IL leaderboards would look better if the columns were the level type (normal or ghost) and the rows were the actual levels (and worlds). In other words, I think the level types should go across the top and the actual levels along the side. Basically, the opposite of what it is now. I think this would look a lot nicer both in the View All menu (it wouldn't go off the right) and the more specific menu (it wouldn't have all the weird-looking categories). Of course, it's not just my decision, but I do really think it would look better.
EDIT: Just one more thing: Would an IL/IW run count if you had the vertical boost powerup and just didn't use it? I know it's not technically without powerups, but I think it should be okay.
For the powerup, i guess it's ok, since it doesnt give any advantage if you don't use it. Anyway I watch every runs entirely to make sure everything is fine.
For the leaderboard, I'll try to do something, I think there was a problem with how speedrun.com works and this is the reason why I did it that way. I'll try something if I can.
