THANK YOU! Finally someone who can see straight.

that's not what I meant lol

I was talking about @neoxxer

You guys need to shut up. We are questioning the legitimacy of the math guy because just saying that you hired a professional one that wasn't biased at all is just sketchy. We have no real evidence that this supposed mathemagician is a legit and qualified person. Also onto the fact that you said that no one can ever be truly proven innocent; if that is the case then how do you expect people to go off of "innocent until proven guilty"? You have literally proven yourself wrong in the point you were trying to make. Our mod team is great. We actually give many people the benefit of the doubt. The mod team does not go off of "guilty until proven innocent". Our mod team goes off of facts. I am tired of seeing non speedrunners criticize the Bedrock team for things they don't understand. Dream did cheat, whether you like it or not. Every single point leads to this. The Bedrock team has had much experience with this type of stuff such as @M8use's 13:04 RSG run, which was incredibly lucky and was verified and rejected many times until it was finally verified successfully after many days of decisions and looks into the run.

They have also correctly banned a plethora of users with the most notable being @7H3 , for cheating in other games. We have had many cheaters too such as @ShiGame .

I completely understand you guys don't want to believe your favorite Youtuber is a cheater but he is. I put a lot of effort and time into speedrunning myself and I really have come to respect the Bedrock mod team for what they have accomplished. I think it was incredibly irresponsible for Dream to accuse the Bedrock team of banning him for no reason and supposedly before this happened and lie about the team to millions of viewers and make them look bad. This ban happened after Geosquare's video was released and was not biased in any way. Stop complaining, Dream cheated, it is what it is. That is my response, _Gold

@Quino and @neoxxer

More details as to why we made our decision to ban Dream can be found on this Document or on this Forum Post, which is less detailed.

In my opinion, both documents (the MCJE mod team doc & Dream's response doc) are flawed. The MCJE mods one fails to take into account 5 other streams, decreasing its legitimacy in that aspect since including those may balance the results and make them less preposterous and insane, however Dream's response doc doesn't cite who wrote it, and according to the person Dream allegedly hired, he didn't watch the 5 streams Dream provided, just went with details provided by, presumably, Dream himself, meaning that the results coming from the writer of Dream's document could be flawed considering a proper analysis wasn't technically performed.

I'd also like to politely say I disagree with the way Dream was banned. No other user had an additional forum post regarding them, however in this instance Dream had another one clearly eluding to him (specifically, the one titled "Regarding cheaters in other games"). As well as this, the overall message "We'd like to use this opportunity" just really seems like a way to take advantage of the situation considering it's a high profile speedrunner. Why not just make a reply about it in this thread? Why is Dream suddenly any different?

Going by the current uncertainty, I do not think Dream should be banned, rather put under "Worthy of doubt". Both perspectives are compromised, and until one can sufficiently counter the other party's claim, we shouldn't entirely be certain he cheated; rather, we should doubt the legitimacy of his runs.

rip liming for i really dont understand why he had the idea of cheating. such a sad story for the speedruners like me. less chinese runners are left and these things were really a shame.

💦ot💦eaded

First of all, thank you for writing out a proper forum post instead of screaming like a child (as many people are doing these days)

[QUOTE=DellowYaisy]The MCJE mods one fails to take into account 5 other streams, decreasing its legitimacy in that aspect since including those may balance the results and make them less preposterous and insane[/QUOTE] I would agree with you on this, if it wasnt for the fact that they picked 6 consecutive streams. I would argue that adding the 5 additional streams would make it less accurate, as nothing was stopping Dream from simply doing 5 legit streams, and only turning on a mod or whatever after the 5th stream.

[QUOTE=DellowYaisy]I'd also like to politely say I disagree with the way Dream was banned. No other user had an additional forum post regarding them, however in this instance Dream had another one clearly eluding to him (specifically, the one titled "Regarding cheaters in other games"). As well as this, the overall message "We'd like to use this opportunity" just really seems like a way to take advantage of the situation considering it's a high profile speedrunner. Why not just make a reply about it in this thread? Why is Dream suddenly any different?[/QUOTE] There are a few parts to this.

1. We never planned on making an additional forum post on Dream. I wrote that thread because it was 1 in the morning (I am UTC+1) and I had been asked the exact same questions regarding his ban for the millionth time, so I felt that by making a forum post that I could easily link to people, the situation would be made easier for the entire mod team.

2. You are correct, this is precisely an attempt to take advantage of the on going drama and the fact that he is such a high profile player. I could go on and use Smedgies as an example of why you shouldnt cheat in other games, but most people would respond with "Who??", Dream is a better option because literally everyone knows who he is. Dream being a hot topic of discussion also means that more people are going to talk about it, making the message that we dont tolerate any cheaters more load and clear.

[QUOTE=DellowYaisy]Going by the current uncertainty, I do not think Dream should be banned, rather put under "Worthy of doubt". Both perspectives are compromised, and until one can sufficiently counter the other party's claim, we shouldn't entirely be certain he cheated; rather, we should doubt the legitimacy of his runs.[/QUOTE] The unfortunate thing is that speedrunning is inherently trust based. We can sit and wait for some sort of definite conclusion, but the matter of fact is that we are never going to get one. It is our job as moderators to make these sorts of subjective decisions, and taking both sides of the argument into account we still feel that Dreams run was illegitimate. If some new information is to surface in the future, we will be more than happy to revoke his ban. Another point I would like to make is that Dream does not run Bedrock and has shown literally no intention to do so, meaning that we would lean more on a ban that sets an example than what some might consider "more fair treatment" for someone that potentially does not own the game (I'm not certain on this, don't quote me)

To conclude, we also have the google doc below which we wrote to explain our take on the situation, and thank you for the post.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P2Lx4BH5zXbHG7_pjf8onsC3O_TLWKzDL-SOPj0c6PM/edit

That does make sense. Thank you for accepting my take and your response. :)

I would like to apologize for my arrogance and just say that I agree with the decision of ban even if it isn't the best in my eyes. Again I apologize and hope that I can be forgiven. Have a good day

No one knows if there are cheated runs on the leaderboards, unnoticed like @liming_ng’s run.

Well maybe someone is observing the runs right now

imagine banning dream when the case isn't even closed yet. yes i think dream cheated but you really couldn't have waited until it was all set and done?

Maybe dream speeds up just a tiny bit that casual watchers won’t notice. Have the mods checked for splicing?

@xRochy dream was banned because the java mods felt his run was illegitimate. He was banned on Bedrock after this to make an example that cheating in other mc games will lead to an instant ban for bedrock.

Dream hasn't proven his innocence as of yet, so he will remain banned. It's similar to being found guilty in court and then launching an appeal, he now needs to prove his innocence or else he will remain banned.

@GD_Kings4Life it is highly unlikely the runs were spliced as the 1.16 runs were livestreamed, and his 1.9-1.15 runs are still verified and remain on the java leaderboards

He hasn't been proven guilty yet either, innocent until proven guilty I thought? I'm not saying I'm on Dreams side because I'm not on either side but I think your reasoning is kind of flawed.

@Fredboy dream has been found guilty by the java mod team, and they currently have not accepted his claims of innocence. so for the java mods, and therefore the bedrock mods, dream is considered guilty unless he can fully disprove the claims he has cheated, which he has not yet done to the java mods. I do agree this reasoning is arguably flawed, however this is what the java mods are using, and it is also arguably fair.

If anyone has questions on cheaters in other games, there is a sticky thread which on the topic which is more suited to these questions. However, if that question is about Dream, then it has likely already been answered in earlier responses. It also isn't really important or relevant seeing as how Dream has no intention to run on Bedrock, and please also consider that mods may be somewhat annoyed on answering the same questions on Dream every day, especially considering there are a total of 214 runs to verify as of this thread being written.

@quickcuppa I know I've not been living underneath a rock. I'm just saying that its super biased to ban someone who hasn't been proven guilty or innocent yet. That's like sending someone to prison because the judge just thinks that they committed a crime, when they haven't been proven guilty yet. Also the Bedrock and Java Mod Teams are completely different.