Ok whatever, I did it myself.

Is there any preference for the details of the names, rules, and order of the categories? I called them "Any% Double Strafe Glitch" and "Any% No Double Strafe Glitch", but this is repetitive and probably not a good way of doing it. Maybe it should be "Keyboard+Controller" or something like that, but then I don't know what to call the other one. Also maybe it's better to explain what the double strafe glitch is exactly in the rules, but I can't be bothered to figure out exactly how it works right now.

Please feel free to give suggestions. (I don't want to figure this out myself.)

Oh yeah, and now it's unclear if the double strafe glitch is allowed in 100%. I don't want to split every category by this so maybe it's best to say it is allowed? idk

The double strafe glitch requires special equipment setup to do so it sounds exactly like the sort of thing that warrants splitting the former any% into 2 categories.

If I was active I would do this myself without asking, but I feel kind of bad just popping in after over a year of not following this game and making such a big change. (I only learned about it today lol)

This board should reflect what active skilled runners are doing. Runners make the categories, not mods. If you have a new category you can embed it in a post here.

If you have a good run in a game and all the mods ignore you then I think the protocol is to complain to the super-super mods on the main forum of this site. That's what it was when I complained about the previous mods on this game to get my mod position and kick them out.

Okay, you got WR and can do frame timing so you can be a super mod and figure this out. I'm not active anymore as you can tell by the fact that it took me a year to reply.

I suggest you do absolutely nothing. This game gets scrub runners submitting to it and adding esoteric timing rules would be confusing for them. It's simpler to say that you can start moving before timing begins. If you do end up changing anything make sure to be very clear about the new timing method and get confirmation from all active mods.

Also it would be helpful for noobs to put that video in the guides page to clearly document being able to move during the black screen.

On second thought recording all the way to the end is kind of unnecessary. I'll change the language to "Please survive after killing Shrek" instead. That way I can at least imagine that the run makes it to the end.

I suggest making it as non-arbitrary as possible. So the rules would be something like "beat the game with the highest possible score." But then you would have to figure out how the score works before you start running it.

No. This game is really simple and doesn't have an actual community anyway so there's no point to having one either.

What might make sense would be to join up with some other speedrunning community with the same theme. Maybe "meme games" or "Unity FPS". I haven't found any like that, though I didn't search very hard.

To kjhark: It doesn't change the rules in that runs will still be accepted whether they survive to the end or not, just as before. What it does is make more standard what a completed run should look like. I can't tell if you agree with this point or not. If you disagree and think it doesn't matter at all then you can change it back, but personally I always cringe a little when the run doesn't make it to what I consider to be the end.

To redduxr: I strongly disagree, but I don't want to continue typing out long arguments for how speedruns should be done here, so whatever.

Try running it if you want to. If it's interesting and shows skill then I'll add it to the page.

The game clearly ends only when it crashes at the very end. The main reason the timing ends early on killing Shrek is that's what the top runners of this game have been doing. I think the reason for this timing at first was that otherwise it would add an extra 40 seconds to the run that's always the same and can't be saved. So basically I consider it to be just a way of reporting the lowest possible time to make the run seem faster. Some of the early runs of this game reported the game-crash time and they had to be retimed to the Shrek kill.

The history of serious world record runners for this game was Newt0570, then me, then huggsTV, then kjhark24. In all these runs but huggsTV, the entire ending plays out to the end, but huggsTV died after killing Shrek. I didn't want to reject a potential world record run due to mostly arbitrary rules that weren't clearly said anyway, so I verified the run. Besides this, I also verified other much slower runs that didn't make it to the end because I thought following strict rules on a meme game like this would be kind of dumb. So by now the precedent is to accept runs that don't make it to the end. (Edit: I forgot about 3dorz. He survived but didn't record to the end.)

What's bad about this precedent is first that viewers don't get to see the game all the way through. A speedrun is a show as much as a competition and it makes a worse show for them. Second, people might not take the runs seriously if they end in a way that seem too arbitrary for them. So it could hurt the "integrity" of the leaderboard and the legitimacy of the achievement of the top runners, if anyone cares about that.

But I think the rules of a speedrun should reflect the conventions of the speedrunning community. And the "community" for this game is a bunch of newbies dropping in who can't be bothered to learn the strats or follow standards for timing. It's always been this way. So I think lax moderation is best for this game.

So I think the policy should be to strongly encourage runs making it to the game-crash at the end, but not actually enforcing it. I'll update the rules to reflect this. If you disagree you can argue about it here. This isn't supposed to be a final ruling by me.

@Dangerless Thank you

Hi. I'm the only active mod for GAME OF THE YEAR: 420BLAZEIT (wow/10 #rekt edition). The current super mod was hard to reach through twitter the first time and now his twitter is down. I tried contacting him through youtube 3 weeks ago with no response. I request to be made super mod so I can add as mod the guy who got WR last 4/20.

Here's the route. It's for both in bounds and totally glitchless. I made a picture of it but it got kind of messy. https://imgur.com/7tVt4bm

Start -> (save next to bat if you need magic) -> Giant Bat -> Minotaur Flail -> Activate Center Warp -> Living Armor -> (save in basement for magic) -> Legion Core -> Warp from Basement to Center -> Death -> Talos -> Activate Cavern Warp -> Merman -> Max Slimer -> Devil -> Pazuzu -> Open the gate going down in the left room -> Switch to Castle B near Pazuzu -> Shadow -> Legion Saint -> Peeping Big -> Warp from Clock Tower to Basement B -> (save if you need magic) -> Skull Knight -> Cyclops -> Warp from Basement to Cavern B -> Golem -> Warp from Cavern to Top Floor B -> Minotaur Axe -> Dracula

Hearts aren't a problem as long as you know which candles give them. Since you don't go to save rooms as much as in All Bosses, it's best to avoid using the magic attack if you can, though there are good saves for it before Legion Core and Skull Knight. For healing, there's lots of Life Ups along the route that only take 2 seconds to regain health. Using them is better than going to save rooms or playing very safely on bosses.

There's lots of zips around, but it doesn't work nearly as much as I thought it could. The big ones are in Entrance, after Skull Knight, and in the first room of Clock Tower after Merman. The one after Merman has borderline legality since it skips a gate you're supposed to unlock, but I think it should be legal. There might be some more zips I missed. Also it's best to take the lower path in Shrine going to Living Armor, and it's better jumping up the platforms in the elevator room.

That's it for the route, but I'll post some alternatives too. The first alternative was only 6 seconds slower by my timing. It activates the Clock Tower warp after Max Slimer before going to Devil, then warps there near the end after Golem to get the Clock Tower B bosses, then from Shadow you go all the way back to the Clock Tower warp.

A second alternative is to warp to the Center Warp at the end before going to Minotaur Axe instead of to the Top Floor Warp. Even with a risky zip in the elevator room it's slightly slower and you get less hearts from it due to not opening the gate near Pazuzu. It's a good backup if you forgot to open that gate though.

There might be launches like that. By my suggested rules they would be allowed, but they don't appear in the route.

Anyway I think I have the route now and the exact rules turned out to not matter. I still want to test it and make sure before posting it though.

@Hetfield90 I want to allow the zips which don't take you to a screen that isn't normally connected on the map, and which don't take you to an OoB, non-wall part of a screen like on the outside of the chapel. The reason for defining it this way is to allow minor zips like in the pendulum room in the clock tower where you can launch past the pendulums and zip up the little platforms between spikes. This would also allow larger zips like zipping up the big entrance room to the save, and the hard zip after skull knight in all bosses. As I said, the same rules as the inbounds tas except without door warps and without launching through locked walls.

@JustLeeBelmont The routes would be mostly the same. I only want to set the rules so I can take into account heart and magic management, and to compare how long different paths take. The route most likely goes from the start through Giant Bat and Minotaur Flail to the warp near Dracula. The bottom-left bosses are easily gotten from there through Living Armor. Then from the center there's the Pazuzu, Clock Tower, and Cavern warps to get to, from which getting the bosses is easy. There are only a few possible paths connecting these 4 warps so it mostly comes down to timing these paths against each other and choosing the fastest ones, and zipping would make the path from the cavern up through aqueduct faster for example. How to connect Shadow to the route is a big factor in choosing these paths, since he only quickly connects to Legion Saint and he's far away from everything else.

Optimizing both routes would be kind of tedious, so I don't think I'll do it. But I can post the candidates so you can time them against each other if you want.

I have the route down to a few candidates and they're all close enough together that the choice between them might come down to what exactly the rules are. So I'll likely need some decision on that.

When I was timing some segments it felt really slow to not go for any launches at all, and when I did launches it was natural to get into walls and zip up, even if I wasn't warping with them. I also don't like not making use of the non warping door glitch. So my preference is to allow zips as long as they don't warp or go out of bounds, to allow launches as long as they don't go through walls, and to allow door glitches as long as they don't warp or go through walls. So basically like this old TAS called "Maxim, in bounds" (http://tasvideos.org/1162M.html), except without the launch into living armor and without the one door warp it uses. If this is too glitchy, then I'd say take it to the other extreme and have no launches or damage glitch at all.

So what should I make the route for?

EDIT: I'll make it for the more glitchy extreme here if there are no objections. This means that zipping up walls would be allowed as long as they don't warp you anywhere.

I can't believe I didn't notice the Japanese version had faster resets. I'll just play on that now then. I don't think it should be a different category though.

You would be able to use these glitches to minimize the in game time on one file by doing a lot of things in the other files. That would make an interesting route, but it wouldn't feel like a speedrun since the timer wouldn't go up in the other files. Besides, you could copy the main file and retry if you fail, so it would be more of a segmented run. All of these techniques to minimize the in game time should be used, otherwise it's not really trying.

If you really want to see how low you can push the in game time then go ahead. But the in game time doesn't track time well enough to make it a speedrun.

Why? The only difference will be that you can spend time waiting in the menu.

Hmm. When I pictured glitchless to myself I was thinking of it more like skipless, which would have excluded only the glitches that allow skips, meaning that launches and the damage glitch would still be allowed, but nothing else. Being totally glitchless is more of a problem for Juste than for Maxim because if you attack as fast you can with Juste you often accidentally get the damage glitch anyway, though that doesn't happen for Maxim. I can regretfully concede the damage glitch but why not allow launching without zipping? That's like trying to go slow. But whatever I'm not sure if I ever want to run it anyway.

I'll post a route here sometime later, hopefully in less than a week.

EDIT: I just remembered that you can skip through the wall to go to living armor by launching off a candle in the left room, so launching allows skips too. That would make the damage glitch the only glitch left so it might as well not be included in glitchless either. I'm fine with the rules being everything restricted then.

If someone wants to run glitchless then that can be a category. There are no plans for it, but I know you're not the only one interested in seeing a run of it. I was thinking of doing a glitchless Juste run because the skips are so awful and inconsistent, but I didn't even do all furniture yet so that's not happening anytime soon.

For Maxim all bosses glitchless would just be any% glitchless since you normally have to defeat all bosses to get to Dracula. Though what glitchless means has to be defined. Does it include the door-glitch? Damage-glitch? Zips without warping? Launching at all?

I could quickly make a route for it if you're asking because you want to run it. It'll be much easier to make than the other routes. I doubt anyone here wants to run it right now though.