Hey everyone, as you know a few of us have been grinding to find out the accuracy of the in-game timer since the game's release. We finally have come to the conclusion that it is accurate and thus we should take a real look at changing the ruleset to reflect the discovery. A big complaint of the community is that the leaderboards are too disjointed with hardware differences and since the in-game timer is accurate, it would eliminate the feeling of needing to improve your hardware to advance in the leaderboards. Since we think the ruleset change should be considered we have made this poll in order to inform everyone of the possibilities and give the community the power to decide what rules we should have moving forward. If you have any questions, please message any one of the moderators or leave a comment in this thread. If you are a part of the community in any way, please read about the potential outcomes and vote true to yourself. Over anything, we want what the community thinks is best.

Here is the link to the poll: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe5QTb0xmi284LRUKqv74_gvYAV70DbIAU_8s-iWQV4biX7jw/viewform

YOU MUST SIGN IN TO GOOGLE IN ORDER TO TAKE THE POLL. This is so we can limit 1 vote per person the best we can.

Thanks for taking the time to read and vote.

I really love Mewtwo

Thanks for the replies! I guess a platformer sounds more like what I’d be into. I definitely prefer PC as I have a friend that wants to learn the game with me and he doesn’t have a PS4 or Switch like I do. I was thinking about learning Shovel Knight since it’s not too long and I enjoyed the game normally. I’ll definitely check out Forma.8. I would just prefer something less stress inducing because Shadow of the Colossus has to be one of the hardest things I’ve ever done lol.

I was looking for some ideas for some games that are pretty relaxing and don't require too many difficult tricks. Max time would be like 2 hours and min time probs 20-30 mins. Thanks do your suggestions!

Resident Evil 7 kind of sucks. I don’t run it personally and I never would. The opening cutscene is hella long and there’s a really boring walking section right after. Then another really long section where you can move but dreadfully slow and it’s basicaly on rails. After that it’s pretty cool I guess.

Basically exactly what coolestto said. If it gains a good amount of interest we'll consider it.

I mean I watch the runs that would be higher up on the leaderboard fully. I have not and would not watch an over 2 hour run in it's entirety probably. That's a lot of time and I guarantee most communities are the same. I don't want to compare this community to a way more popular one, but runs for Odyssey were approved after not being watched if they were longer than a certain time. I don't see the problem if the run isn't really super competitive. Especially if I'm still checking the time for each of the 16/17 splits.

Also if someone sends us a VOD and the run doesn't start immediately it can be more difficult to use the time signatures of the video. Regardless, it's a moot point. The rule was changed and it'll probably take longer for runs to get verified due to the fact that the entire VOD has to be watched and over 2 hour runs aren't easy to watch at times.

I agree. With the splits point I made, it wouldn’t have to be splits. It’s easy for Bobby, Ninnyz, and I to skip to where the split normally ends, even without splits on the timer, and see that the time makes sense for the split they theoretically just finished. For example, if someone’s time through Valus is only 1:00 on the external timer, something is wrong.

This is why some sort of external timer is infinitely easier on mods. Now we’ll have to have the video up and running for the length of the run in order to verify it, instead of skipping to the end of each colossi and keeping track of the time in between to make sure it’s fine.

I understand where you are coming from. The reason I asked is because there are no rules that are determined by the site that span over every game. If there are it would be the obvious ones like cheating. Rules are defined by the community of the game and if the rules won't apply to you, then I would probably take your suggestion more lightly. That is why I asked you those questions.

"Apparently I did need to!" This is bait. Neuro isn't even a mod anymore and hasn't been for at least a few days before you made your long post with quotes from site mods. I'm a newer mod to the lineup but I'm sure they've discussed it in the past and we would've discussed it with or without your threat to tell Kirkq. I can see their reasoning for why they made the rules regarding external timers.

1. It IS easier on moderators (whether or not you think it's ethical or not is up to you)
2. It's not difficult to add one to an existing vod using livesplit and OBS.
3. For slower/more casual runs it's easier to go through the splits/colossi and look at the time to verify it's correct and makes verifying runs faster, meaning more runs can be verified in a shorter amount of time.

Now, since we've gotten more popular, I understand the want for the rule change. With more popularity comes more potential runners with restrictions in regards to PC limitations or no capture devices. But as long as you have a computer with the capability to run OBS and livesplit as well as your vod, you can time and split your own run. Since it's now "preferred" instead of required, there will be a lot of runs that aren't timed externally, thus slowing down the verification process for everyone. I'm not taking it personally nor escalating. Your points are valid and you're right, no one was bringing them up. But you didn't make it seem like you were a potential runner or someone that rule would even affect. Which is why I was asking if you were even a potential runner. I just think it's kind of off-putting when someone comes in here threatening to get site mods to enforce rules that haven't been questioned until they were by you, someone who didn't make an intention to run the game themselves, only a week ago.

@6oliath can you please not be petty and refrain from baiting on our boards, please?

Also, are you even planning on running the game or being apart of our community, or are you just here to monitor and police our rules?

this is a spicy meatball

Since there is a HUGE difference in loading times between the PS4 and PS4Pro, as long as the IGT is actually correct and we can figure it out entirely, I would vote to use that. But definitely not until we know exactly what it times.

So instead of glitchless/without bugs, how about suggesting "intended strategy" category? Bugs and glitches are sort of hard to define.

Distortion was saying that he thinks the new game should start when we hit "skip cutscene" on the first cutscene and I agree with him.

I didn't say the PS3 and PS2 versions of the game were exactly alike. I said there isn't so much of a difference that one is better than the other. Also, I just looked at the God of War II boards and it looks atrocious. There are a lot of categories that are divided up even further because of console and emulator. And on top of that, most of the categories only have 1 or 2 runners and that isn't something that it seems we want necessarily.

I don’t know, personally I would vote against having an emulator only category. The reason emulators are allowed for other games is because those emulators don’t make a difference in terms of time to complete the game. You can speedrun it all you want on an emulator, but you shouldn’t be able to have any sort of “official” time because the emulator isn’t close to being the official game. Just practice on an emulator until you can get a capture card.

As far as other releases go, the ps3 and ps2 versions are extremely similar and no version is clearly better than the other, which is why they should stay together.

Until we know how similar the PS4 version is, someone’s PB should go on the current leaderboards with PS3 and PS2 until we know how much different it is.

Creating so many different categories spreads the community thin and stops promoting competition.

What would be the purpose of a separate category for emulators only? What would be the benefits? How many people would run it and what's the proof?

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but if you're just asking for it to be a category because you only have access to the emulator, that isn't a good enough reason, in my opinion. It would be a waste of time and space to set up another category just for one or two people to be added to a leaderboard.

I'm going to quote my good friend Plush from earlier in the thread.

"Like most communities for PS2 and later games: emulators are not allowed. This is due to frame issues, load times differences, and possible setting changes that would give an unfair advantage. As most categories in this game are timed in RTA (real time) these issues are a factor."

He isn't saying that he thinks anyone is going to cheat. He is saying that emulators are inherently faster than console due to better frame rate and load times, which makes them invalid.

@manualdosspeedBR , The physics in the PS4 version might not be different enough to warrant another category to be made. In order to actually find out, we would have to play the game. What would happen if we figured out that the PS4 category was insanely similar to the previous two? Then we would've created a category for no reason.

@asuracry++ , I run Shadow of the Colossus! If you need any help, feel free to hit me up any time!