United KingdomPatience is a virtue my man, I saw the forum post and the submission yesterday I just had little time to do stuff yesterday as it was a jam packed day, speaking only for myself of course; im in the process of reviewing it now
As noted in the edit of the main thread, Ethan Must Die is now live and open for runs, mainly due to popular demand from a lot of runners.
There are two categories, Without statues and With statues. Obviously one allows the item pickups from death statues, the other does not, simple as.
I highly recommend you record your setups if you're setting up for statues, just in case it comes to light there may have been some wrong-doing in setting up and we want to watch it back to make sure it's all legit. That's literally just my personal opinion and it's highly unlikely that'd happen, it is NOT a requirement, just remember that.
Have fun guys I look forward to seeing the runs soon!
Uhh, you can use a cheat engine to unlock everything I guess, don't use anything of it during runs, of course.
Or just play the game a lot and unlock a lot of points and buy all the NG items like I did. I wont lie when we first started running I ran through barrys first episode about 50 times to get all the points I needed to unlock everything
Those are the criteria we have displayed and discussed yeah, are a lot of you really interested in running it I take it?
More DLC will probably be added later on, but if it's something you want then everyone should voice it so we can take it into consideration.
The first set of DLC are on the boards guys!
Currently available are Jack’s 55th Birthday and 21, these are the most runnable options at the moment but don’t panic, we’ll probably (more than likely) be adding a few more of the DLC to the boards once we get some feedback and can hash out the details on that.
Jack’s 55th and 21 can be found in the level leaderboards, all the rules can be found in the usual sections but heres a quick rundown.
After discussion, the best way to handle Jack’s 55th and give people a couple of choices. There are two options for each of the six stages:
Category 1: All bonuses and features allowed. Literally use everything you can, all unlocks, bobbleheads, weapons, anything you like to get the fastest time. Use the in game time at the end, naturally.
Category 2: Rather than restricting a few bonuses and weapons, this one is completely vanilla, if you will. Meaning: You use only what is given in the item box for that level, so no golden blaster, no golden crowbar, circular saw, no bobbleheads in the map, no bonuses at all (time boosts, speed boosts, health increase, any of the blue item bonuses). You can use any other weapons and items provided to you in the map though, including red and blue blasters. Use the time at the end same again The times will be in reverse to what you normally see on the board, otherwise people are going to have to do math, it’s easier to just state the time that’s left at the end.
For 21, there are just 3 categories with basic rules. 21, Survival, and Survival+
The aim of it is to beat it as fast as possible, you can use all bonus cards you can unlock since well, you can’t restrict them unlike other DLCs.
The timing is RTA, and will be double checked by mods so don’t try changing it because we will check it and change it accordingly regardless. I recommend recording with the RTA on screen as it’ll make it easier to verify, we will still check nonetheless.
For all categories you need to start the timer the moment you press [F] or [X] or whatever button correlates to your use key from the loading screen (so not when you enter the DLC level, but when the Continue appears in the bottom right and you press the button to start, this eliminates load time differences coming into RTA)
For 21, you end the timer as soon as the final opponent is defeated (the spin blades STOPS spinning) that’s your final time, that’s what you submit with.
For survival and survival+ you end the timer the moment “Congratulations” appears on screen; I would say it doesn’t matter if you start it right as it appears or once it’s fully on screen, since it only takes about half a second for it to fully appear.
I'll be doing some Jack runs myself anyway so if you see them on there, use them as examples if you're still not sure.
Feel free to give feedback and let us know what DLCs you want and well, why you want them, as well as on what we’ve done here now.
Happy running people
Fresh Edit: Ethan Must Die is now live, both PC and console and each with two categories of Without statues and With statues.
In Ethan must die, it's more a case of imagine if you could go through the game and pick up the magnum, then run back to the garage and leave it next to the G17 spawn, then restart from the beginning, start the timer and all of a sudden have the magnum for the first few fights. Substitute the magnum for the saw, infinite ammo, Albert, any item and all of a sudden you're at a major advantage to just doing the run fresh and it didn't cost you any extra time in the run.
I definitely think it's worth having both categories since it's also skilled trying to set up the run, but there's also a lot of skill in doing it completely random, we can satisfy both
When you reach certain points you'll see the loading icon in the top left, as soon as you can see that you can pause hit retry and press yes, it will restart you at exactly that point and give you speed boosts. It doesn't work everywhere and some of them done even spawn you at the same place, so it's figuring out which ones work, most of which have been found
I'm pretty sure load times do not count, for like retries and stuff, the timer restarts as soon as you can "continue" as far as I'm aware, so just mash that button.
In the long run if this is consistent I wonder if it even saves time. If you've still got to get back out of bounds to get back into thit house then it doesn't work, unless you stay out of bounds the whole time in which case you don't need to get back in bounds.
Then we come to the question: Is it faster to do the whole out of bounds and grab the crow key then go back for the dog heads?
I'm going to do some testing to see if o can replicate this, then test if it's even possible to get into the main house after grabbing the key and finally is it faster to do it the vanilla route or this route.
Either way nice find, it's a step in the OOB category being real
Nightmare and night terror can be sped up. When you have to defeat all enemies to end the night the faster you kill them the quicker the night ends, also using the crafting menu pauses time progression in the night. Option 2 would be easier, the only reason I added the potential for option 1 is I enjoy not having infinite weapons like the saw and infinite ammo, if you don't have that for one category then the run doesnt just become about beating it fast but also about ammo purchasing and management.
21: As much as it'd be great to have NG/NG+ for this, Nightmare and Night Terror you have the choice to purchase the NG+ items, whereas with 21 once you unlock them theyre automatically added to the trump pile, theres no way to prevent certain cards coming out
Jacks 55th: This is probably the most controversial one in terms of timing, and I feel it needs more thought. An RTA timer could be a good way around it, since it'd be similar to trying to time it like the rule-set category, but you don't need to restrict people.
Ethan Must Die: You could have two categories, one completely random no statues and one allowing setup. However if you're going to allow people to set it up surely we should be timing the setup time as well? Since that's actually part of the work that went into it.
Nightmare & Night Terror, must be an RTA timer. Timer starts as soon as you gain control of Clancy, and to avoid wrong timings on final jack death, timer ends as soon as score page is shown.
Two options here
Option 1: 4 different categories Nightmare, Nightmare+, Night Terror and Night Terror+
The + categories allow all weapons and boosts, the normal categories forbid the circular saw and infinite ammo, it’s essentially NG as opposed to NG+. Both categories allow all traps, doors, machines and everything to be used.
Option 2: Just have two categories, Nightmare and Night Terror; allow all weapons and infinite ammo to be used, just do it as fast as possible.
Bedroom
Simple, RTA timer, timer starts as soon as you press the button to start the videotape, timer ends as soon as you see the standby video screen at the end.
Just do it as fast as you can, no real rules needed here, but it must be the true ending (Clancy escapes)
21:
RTA timer, timer starts as soon as you gain control of Clancy, timer ends as soon as you lose control. 3 Categories. Normal 21 Playthrough, Survival and Survival+
No need to differentiate between “flawless” and not, if you lose a finger or get shocked it doesn’t change the category, it just slows you down so obviously everybody needs to aim to not lose a single round. (The only reason I say this is because to have a non-flawless category you’d have to go out of your way to lose a finger or get shocked, which is pointless. If you can beat someones time while also losing a round, go for it.)
Daughters:
Simple enough, RTA timer. Timer starts when you gain control of Zoe (right after the intro video, so once you skip it, start timer) and timer stops as soon as the screen goes black after being grabbed by Eveline at the end. (I personally feel that like the main leaderboards and Bedroom, true ending only, meaning you need to finish in the trailer.)
Jacks 55th Birthday
Level based leaderboard for each level, rank is irrelevant, however obviously SS is the fastest. Use IGT as the timer. I propose these rules: No golden crowbar No golden blaster No infinite ammo No time bonus a-I, a-II, b-I, or b-II No bobbleheads
You use whatever items are given to you in the box for that level ontop of whatever can be found in the level (still excluding those bobbleheads). Time+speed blasters are permitted, all other boosts are allowed.
If you start allowing crowbar and gold blaster, as well as bobbleheads and time boosts, the times are going to be dumb, you can easily finish every challenge with only losing 3 seconds or so, then its going to come down to who can round the first corner of the map in the least milliseconds. Don’t add bonus time to the end time, just look at the final time counter, because it counts the total bonus timer you gather as opposed to how much bonus time you actually used, then it’s going to end up with some unnecessary math, which adds human error in submissions.
(Example, my current record for Guest House 1 is 14:56:599, if I had 1:27:367 bonus time added but only used 1:12:142 of the bonus time, you’ve then got to take and add and subtract and all sorts of shit, just count that final 14:56:599 as the final time).
There is the second option of course and if its really in high enough demand, have two categories, one with those rules, and one where you can use all the stuff you want, and just time fractional miliseconds from that one tiny start corner.
The Simple One
Ethan Must Die One category, no retrys AKA, no death statue pickups, use end IGT as timer.
Timer: x:xx:xx
These, from extensive research and testing of all sorts of shit seem to be the most reliable and also most manageable ways to run the leaderboards for them; in the end it's down to the supermods, but DLC leaderboards are in high demand, and I myself would like to see them on there. But, this is a forum and so if anyone has any changes or suggestions, feel free to post them so the higher ups can make their final decisions.
Alright I think everyone needs to chill out. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill right now guys.
Adding the time to Japanese versions seems perfectly acceptable to me, it's separating them that I'm against, it can be timed and agreed on by mods, but if you swap it to an entirely different category, it is then unfair to Japanese players, and it's even more categories to be added to the shit ton of category options we have.
A time addition of how long it takes to grab the key out of the body seems acceptable to me. I think it's pointless arguing about it, if we're going to discuss it, make a valid point and explain it, explain the pros and cons and lets figure this out easily.
If the other 99% aren't even getting close to world record or even top 5, then they dont need to worry about that 15 seconds the japenese version gives you. When they get to top 5, they can get the japanese version. It's just one of those things about running. Some games require special equipment like anti ghosting keyboards and free scroll mice on PC, they don't separate the category they just tell you to buy the equipment if you want to compete.
My PC is shit. When i run and record I lag, I lose some time sure but I've still got the WR. If it came down to two seconds I lost due to lag due to my equipment and someone beat my record by two seconds I wouldn't have a leg to stand on asking for a category of "Runs made using less than recommended game specs making you lose a few seconds" it'd be up to me to buy better PC parts. The japanese version is just a different version of one of the equipment pieces used to run the game; if you want to compete, get it.
Edit: I'd like to compare this to Outbreak, I've no idea if outbreak is actually affected by loading times, but if you run on PS2 or PC emu, your game runs slower than if you use a PS2 with an SSD with the game on it. We haven't separated the categories, it's just something thats part of the running.
I can see all the points but I'd personally enjoy running this. If you cancel out the extra time bonuses and bobbleheads and stuff it's more about routing and using what's given to you in the game itself, just like running NG, then I can see it being viable
See I've done it with 5 shots and the rest knife swings but using the rest of your strat.
I actually think the swings might be faster, but I haven't timed anything yet if it is faster it's like fractional it seems to be more about the positioning that makes the 1 strat.
I haven't found anything consistent for Mia, during practice I can do it from all sorts of spots and 2 hit her 10 times in a row but then I get into a run and bam, can't do it for shit, it's all so uncertain. My most reliable and favourite one to do is moving right to the boards then looking left and lining up in the middle of the painting. It's the original method really and it's working best for me
See a lot of people are going to enjoy the bonuses, which is why separate categories should be allowed. But theres literally going to be so little leeway for changes, if pausing time counts people are going to finish maps in like 2-5 seconds, it will come down to milliseconds. Luckily enough I don't mind that and Im sure the other mods wont either since the minigame itself counts all milliseconds down to 3 points, which is perfect.
Timed blasters are fine, theyre part of the stage same as stage weapons, anything like that. Any bonuses that can be found within the map are fine excluding bobbleheads; bobbleheads change everything.
