British Columbia, CanadaIf you get it 100% of the time you get it 43% of the time.
Dude I have a time on the NLE board. This post was like 99% meme anyways. If I really care about being on the boards I'll do a 101% run, probably get like 10 hours, then cry myself to sleep.
I just did a first run on Super Gameboy 1 for the SNES and I didn't honestly know if it was allowed or not. Can someone let me know if it is?
Can I upload my highly segmented 48 part Let's Play as a 101% speedrun? I know IGT isn't accurate but my time is really bad so PLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE. Here's a playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWpEdaIAJ3ttl-02H6bgrmTr_ShnbzFz9
I tried to go fast.....
Hey guys,
So a friend of mine just informed me that Project 64 version 2.3 just came out and said that it "plays at an identical speed to version 1.7", which IIRC is what we allow for runs of this game. He's a credible source whose name I can give in a PM if you'd like (his privacy and such), and he has worked on this version "for years".
I was just wondering if it'd be okay to do runs on this version. He says there's no adware in the program, so it's safe to run. Let me know what you guys think.
Cheers, Lylat
Hey JBLZ, Glad to hear that run got you into the idea of running this game seriously :D
For the master emerald locations, I would suggest something called a "Knuckles Centurion" (since you said Hero Story). It's a practice category where basically you play each Knuckles stage 20 times. A lot of people race it, and doing races are probably the most fun way to learn the piece locations. You don't have to do a full run or anything, a good way starting out is to do x20 runs of each Knuckles stage (play them 20 times consecutively), and we have a google doc leaderboard that I can share with you in a more private place since it's open to anyone to edit and posting it here would be bad news bears. It's a good way to compare your progress to that of other runners.
Another thing I wanna mention is the Emblem Skip Glitch. If your'e running on Gamecube, this glitch is exclusive to GCN and saves about 2.5 mins RTA (real time attack) over the run. Here's a tutorial on how to do it: While this game is now timed primarily on in-game time, it should save you some grief of waiting on loading screens. Again, this only works on Gamecube because of the ability to soft-reset.
One thing I'd like to suggest before you do runs too is not implementing some of the skips into runs right away. The main thing that will save you time in this game is basic movement, not skips, so using them early on can hinder your progress in learning basic movement. The skips I would suggest holding off on until a later time are: City Escape Skip, Green Forest Wallrun, Snake Skip in Pyramid Cave, GC (Gamecube corner) skip in Hidden Base, Crazy Gadget Skip, Crazy Gadget Skip Skip, and Final Rush Skip.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning them early on, I'd just like to say that learning how to play the stage well before putting skips in runs is probably the better way to go.
Other than that, if you have any questions, let me or any other runner know, we'll be happy to help.
Oh ya, and don't learn Final Rush skip from Ethmar.
Take it easy and good luck :D
To add on to what Pottoww said: You can speed yourself up in Star Fox games but only by a certain amount. They may as well be autoscroller games, but there's a lot of technical movement, many difficult strats, and all of the top runners are very talented and consistent. The goal of the speedrun is to be maintaining that maximum speed for as much of the run as possible and to kill bosses as quickly as possible to advance to the next stage. It's basically like any other speedrun but you don't have to hold forward.
Of course though, this doesn't apply to Star Fox Adventures, 2, or Command, as those aren't autoscroller/rail shooter games.
I'd also like to note that, if you want to prove people wrong and say these games are easy to run, run them. I think you'll find them surprisingly challenging. And maybe a lot of fun. And maybe you can race. And win. And get to rub it in our faces.
Any level of gameplay is welcome to sign up but I don't think acceptance into the race is guaranteed (if I'm wrong please correct me). Command will probably be run on Wii U VC so that makes it a little more accessable in terms of capturing game footage. Star Fox 64 3D on the other hand, you'll need a 3DS capture or emulator. If you're interested, sign up sooner rather than later, there was discussion on making a signup deadline but I don't think that was concrete as of yet. You can use the link in the first thread.
@Drakodan I just got a new copy of the game today so I can run it again but the fact that I can only do 1-2 runs at a time once a week is quite disheartening, especially when PB depends on RNG at this point. Once I get into a situation where I can sit down for hours and play I'll grind out for a 25:0X or 24:5X.
I did quite a bit of testing comparing Emulator to iQue and I believe that the following settings would be the best for runs done on emulator:
Project 64 v1.7 Emulator Star Fox 64 (U) v1.0 ROM Memory Size 4MB Counter Factor 2 All other settings default
Here are some tests, as well as descriptions, that I did:
- Counter Factor 1 setting, comparing cutscene times during the Red Line run versus iQue.
Parameters and results of the test were shown on-screen at the end of the video, but the findings found that, not including the Sector Z cutscene, Emulator with Counter Factor 1 would save 61 frames over iQue over the run. A reasonable estimate for the Sector Z cutscene would be around -2 frames, but it was untested, so these results were mostly inconclusive. The fact that the run went to Macbeth after Zoness on emulator would not affect the results. Test found here:
- Counter factor 1 setting, comparing Area 6 times versus iQue.
17 frames were saved over the stage on emulator versus iQue, but there is execution bias in this result. Video showed saving 1 frame every time Gorgon (boss) faded in and out of existence, totaling 9 frames in a perfect double-1-cycle fight. No execution bias in this result. Post-stage cutscene was 29 frames faster on emulator than iQue, no execution bias in this result either. Another comparison was done with Counter Factor 2 (not shown) where the stage was 13 frames faster (again, execution bias), the boss fade in/out was the same, and the post-stage cutscene was 34 frames faster, making the stage 47 frames faster with counter factor 2, versus 55 frames faster with counter factor 1. Test found here:
- Counter factor 2 setting, comparing cutscene times during the Red Line run versus iQue.
Same as test #1, except with counter factor 2 setting as opposed to counter factor 1 setting. Cutscenes that DIDN'T lag on iQue were slower on emulator, but ones that did lag on iQue were slower on iQue. This differs from the results from test #1 where all cutscenes were faster on emulator. Overall, including the Sector Z, Emulator w/ CF 2 setting was 41 frames faster. Without Sector Z, it was 45 frames faster, which is 16 frames slower than emulator with CF 1 setting. Test found here:
- Counter factor 2 setting, comparing movement speed between N64 and emulator.
Basically travelling in a straight line to see if emulator flies faster. Although there is an RNG bias, there's very little difference between the two systems, which could basically be chocked up to lag frames. Basically all the information is in the video, but 2 tests were done, one with barrel rolls and one without. Neither test has either console touching the control stick, boost, brake, etc., and both boast similar results. The conclusion was that there is no difference in movement speed, and if there is, it's within a very small margin of error and could be approximated as equal. Test found here:
- Counter factor 2 setting, comparing Zoness between emulator and iQue.
Playing through Zoness to compare lag. There IS execution bias in this test, but not nearly enough to warrant the result. The result was that emulator was 7.57s slower than iQue in this stage. A few of the lag zones are caused by shooting searchlights, which alone causes enough lag to make the two versions equal, or emulator slower. Although I'm certain that some of this lag could be reduced, I believe the lag in this stage would be at least 41 frames, which offsets the decreased cutscene time on emulator compared to iQue. Test found here:
So tl;dr is that, based on these tests, I can reasonably conclude the following:
- Basic movement speed is not faster than console
- Emulator with suggested settings would be slower than the fastest official version, which is iQue, at the very least, for Red Line.
Based on this, I believe this meets all required criteria and emulator can be added to the leaderboards as a miscellaneous category, unless there are any outstanding objections.
Okay, so we had a very long discussion on this on the Discord, but I'm gonna give a rundown of the points that each person made:
DSX let it known that he was against emulators, but said that he basically didn't care enough and said that other people could decide.
Zallard1 stated that he was against the idea of emulators because they are inaccurate in lag reproduction from consoles, which is true.
Pottoww let it known that he didn't like the idea of having separate leaderboards (as stated above) and said that he would be somewhat satisfied if we could find an emulator which is slightly slower or the same as the current fastest version of the game (iQue). He stated that he wanted the leaderboards to be mixed, but have emulator hidden by default.
Fling84 stated that he was for the idea of having a separate leaderboard for emulator, but not having them mixed because it makes console runners look bad. Zallard1 and I both agreed on this.
Pottoww suggested the idea of having separate leaderboards, but having emulator runs as a miscellaneous category. All people involved in the conversation at this point (myself, Pottoww, Zallard1, and Fling) agreed. The stipulation of this was that we had to find an emulator that ran at similar (within a few seconds over a run) speed to iQue. I am going to compare video evidence of both iQue and emulator using previous PBs by myself and Pottoww to confirm that the run would be of similar speed to iQue, which I will post the evidence here once it is complete.
I'm not really suggesting making the leaderboards a mockery, or if I am I'm doing so unintentionally. That would be putting them all in the same category and it's basically anything goes, which would break the game and a lot of veteran runners would be pissed.
I'm okay with "hidden by default", but then claiming a world record is kind of awkward. Picture this: Someone gets a 32:05 on emulator, claims WR Pottoww gets a 32:10 on iQue. Since emu is hidden, he claims WR because he has it. A fight ensues over "who really has WR".
I don't think people are really that petty, but I could see it happening.
The issue I have with having sub-categories for EVERY platform is that it kinda clusterfucks the leaderboards. You have some categories with 30+ runs (N64 Any%) and some categories with 0 runs (iQue Blue Line). The reason I suggested just splitting it between console and emulator is because that leaves it nice and clean. I 100% see what you're saying, and for the most part, I agree, but it presents to problem of "too many categories".
I like that nobody has seemed to have an issue with at least adding emulator to the boards in some capacity, though, as this was the original intention.
tl;dr don't want to leave emulator hidden as this may cause confusion over who has WR, and not a big fan of splitting boards so that each console has a category, but will accept.
I think a sub-category for Emulators would be worth having, possibly including iQue in that category.
iQue and Emu have virtually the same lag-reduction strats, which is none. This somewhat breaks the meta-game and, although I respect that some people have better runs on iQue (¤cough Pottoww on Red Line cough¤) , I think it's a bit disheartening to see that you got WR in a game, only to see that you didn't and can't get WR on the console you're playing on because it's so much slower (¤cough anyone not on iQue on Red Line cough¤).
That being said, not dissing iQue. It's a valid console and Pottoww still has the best Red Line run. But I think it would suck if someone got a 32 on console, which would obviously be better than Pottoww's run, just to see that you're 2nd and there's no way to get WR without dropping $100 on an iQue, having to deal with a terrifying Andross and ROB, and basically doing a completely different run.
Here's what I want to see: I want to see emulator on the leaderboard. Straight-up, I'm not big on emulator, but I think it would be a good way to get people interested in running this game. I don't know how many people I've told "emulator is banned" to and they've immediately dropped the thought of running the game. A lot of people don't have the means to run this game ($40 capture card + $40 console + $20 game = $100, not a small amount of money if you have none of this).
Here's what I DON'T want to see: A game dominated with emulator leaderboards. I see a lot of this with another game I run, Mario Party, where the top 20 or so times are all on emulator, and even if you wanna run on console, you can't be even close to competitive because the run is easy and the best time you can get on it is like a 37 (barely top 20). It diminishes the work done by those on console because they see "oh Hayate has a 22:24 Any%, well that's only 16th on the board so he must suck" when the run is fucking godly.
So basically, I'd like emu to be on the boards, but in a sub-category, much alike what was done in Star Fox SNES. Have 2 columns for every category, console and emulator. Console includes N64, Wii(U) VC, and iQue. Emu includes emu. Would require Project64 1.7 or earlier to run, since 2.X is broken for speedrunning in most games, and honestly it's not that hard to find an earlier version online for free. Although I personally lean towards the idea that iQue should be bunched in with Emu, it's a console and it should be treated as such.
tl;dr I'd like to add emulator runs to the leaderboard, but have them separated in columns, much like the Star Fox SNES leaderboard does with warps/warpless/etc.
Blue Line. I say that because, aside from getting a game over, there's not really a way to "fail" the category. I mean, Any% is just technically "beat the game", but generally people go to Katina/Sector Z, and that can be difficult for new runners.
I'd recommend running Blue Line because, for Star Wolf, there's a built in timer where they'll just leave the planet anyways after a certain amount of time, so you can't really lose and end up stuck on the wrong path. If that happens it brings you to the stage you have to do anyways, Sector X. Also, it's got a lot of potential with sick boss strats, you get to kill Peppy a lot, etc.
If you're looking for resources, there isn't much, other than just talking about what you're doing while you're doing the run. I did a marathon run last week of this category and I think it's got okay commentary, in terms of explaining things. I'll post a link here this afternoon since the marathon channel was taken down due to poor management. Either way, Blue Line I'd say is the way to go, mostly because you don't have to deal with Katina.
Hey all, New to running this game, only ever completed one NLE run, and I've heard people talking about using a Wiimote to N64 controller adapter. I'd like to use this to do runs on the Wii U VC, but I've had some issues with controller adapters in the past and I'd like to know if there's a specific one people would recommend. If there's any tips people can give for if one of them sucks, or any direction someone can point me in to find one, that'd be awesome!
Thanks, all!
Lylat
I'm a bit slow at processing it as well. The thing I do is look at the gaps between the 1st and 2nd pipes and 2nd and 3rd pipes (1st is on the left) and then ignore the gap between the last 2 pipes. This'll usually narrow it down to a 1/2 chance of getting it every time, because you'll likely be able to eliminate the 1st or 2nd pipes by looking there. Other than that, just practice!
Geridesu has a tutorial on her twitch page. It's a bit hard to understand but that's the only thing we have. Watching other people do it also helps.
Legit All-Stages is really fun. Uses a lot of strats that you wouldn't use in 100% and it's really chill, plus the way Geri and I routed it it's Blue Line at the start and that's where both of our current PB's come from. Here's how we did it:
Corneria (blue) - Meteo (boss) - Fichina - Sector X - Titania - Bolse - Venom 1 - reset Corneria (red) - Sector Y (red) - Aquas - Zoness - Sector Z (lose) - reset Corneria (blue) - Meteo (warp) - Katina - Solar - Macbeth (nuke) - Area 6 - Venom 2
Here are some rules it could have: -Must kill all bosses -Must see all "mission complete" or "mission accomplished" screens (either or, just have to see one per stage) -Resets occur on the Mission complete/accomplished screen when the words are fully visible -Must do both versions of Venom (since they're both stages with different bosses) -Timer starts when you gain control on Corneria the first time and ends when you get the final hit on Andross 2, or when you see the final "Mission complete/accomplished" screen, haven't decided yet (I think on the final hit on Andross 2 is better, it quantifies a route).
Let me know what you guys think. We've had 3 runners doing it so far, hopefully more soon.
