This post will describe all KNOWN differences between various versions of the game, based on the perspective of the US/EU PSP version since most runs currently are designed/tested/done on this version, and the emulator version strives to achieve parity to it.

Positive changes are listed with +, negative - and neutral •

• Vic takes 1/2-1/3 damage from almost all sources (Good dying less, bad for death warps)

• When an NPC dies it cancels your lock on, meaning you constantly have to re-aim in order to switch targets after someone dies.

• NPCs on the ground are untargetable, so if one gets knocked over you cannot aim at them

• Analogue sensitivity is increased, making small movements harder and reaching the maximum input faster

• Yes and No are swapped in menus

• Pager is faster due to Japanese text

• The downtown Mac 9 Rampage was moved North of it's position on EU/NA

• Weapons are correctly respawned in "Burning Bridges"

• Uses updated/different SCMs (If you don't know what this means don't worry about it)

• Snitch Hitch Dupe is possible only on this version (that we know of)

• Got Protection dupe doesn't crash if no Save n' Quit between it and Cleaning House Dupe

• Assassins in "Soldier" do not damage you. Instead set the car on fire and get in it before it explodes to death warp.

• Dupe Snitch Hitch to skip Zero to Hero

• Save n' Quit after Truck Stop, instead of after Cholo Victory and Hose the Hoes

Note: Because Emulator is trying to be the same as Real Hardware, and Emulator is not an official release, anything proven only to work on Emulator and not Real Hardware is not allowed.

• Load times are faster (unless your PC loads slower than a console from 2004)

• Frame rate is locked to a stable 30 (again; unless PC bad)

• More Stable after duping, meaning less Save n' Quits between dupes

• Need to reverse in the Hovercraft before you can accelerate, most notably in "White Lies" (Emulator bug?)

• Lots of stuff! (Allan please add details) however none of it is allowed since Emu is trying to be real PSP and Emu is not an official version

• Duping "The Colonel's Coke" has a higher chance of unusable Helicopter spawns. If not done (So "Kill Phil: Part 1" is done) you will not be in a good spot to setup om0 Rampage carry through for "Home's On The Range" so instead do "Unfriendly Competition" dupe after "Hostile Takeover" (like PSP runs pre-dating 2019).

The PS2 version was released after the PSP version, and features some changes and additional content. Click me for a map of all PS2 exclusive content

• Load times are slower from disc (PS2/PS3)

• Load times are slower from HDD??? (PS3)

• Frame rate is worse (PS3 does a poor job of emulating PS2)

• More Rampages, most notably the one on Prawn Island

• More Vehicle spawns and purchase spots, most notably the PCJ in Vice Port and Skimmer south of Ocean Beach

• More Unique Stunt Jumps

• Better Controls (Right Analogue Stick input, more shoulder buttons)

• Planes instantly explode when crashed (like in GTA:SA)

• The downtown Mac 9 Rampage was moved North of it's position on PSP

• Probably uses updated/different SCMs (If you don't know what this means don't worry about it)

• Changing language while a Pager is on screen skips it

• Going Out of Bounds does not flip every vehicle

• Repeating "Hose the Hoes" om0 4 times crashes (requires Save n' Quit)

• Garages don't fail to store vehicles

• Assassins in "Soldier" do not damage you. Instead set the car on fire and get in it before it explodes to death warp.

• Do "Waking Up The Neighbours" once while om1 as per pre OOB strats (PSP runs pre-dating 2019). This will include not setting up om0 rampage before and during "Fear the Repo", and instead doing it before and during "When Funday Comes".

• Save n' Quit during "Hose the Hoes" om0 passing

• Consider using the Skimmer near Lance's House for travelling to missions on Prawn Island, eg: "Blitzkrieg" -> "The Mugshot Longshot" or "Say Cheese" -> "Kill Phil: Part 2". However I don't know of anyone timing these. Perhaps even a mission order change would be beneficial like "White Lies" -> Skimmer -> "Say Cheese" -> "Where It Hurts the Most" -> "Kill Phil: Part 2"

• Use "Coach Tour" Submission and Prawn Island Rocket Launcher Rampage to duplicate "So Long Schlong" after "Domo Arigato Domestoboto"

¯_(ツ)_/¯ Just use PSP Emulator please <3

Timing: No brainer imo, change it (unless I'm overlooking an issue)

WR Rules I feel really torn about this, but the bottom line is if it's already being done with non-fresh restart rules then it makes sense to also do it for accidental cheats. I would say that similarly to the non-fresh restart rule any accidental cheats must be noted in the comments of the submission (like how swimming times currently have to be noted)

All Missions Don't really have an opinion on this one. I would hope that whatever happens it makes it so the category has a purpose and it isn't just another NMG.

EDIT: Forgot the no videos bit. I wouldn't remove them. They WERE verified by someone. None of the ones without videos are particularly high tier so the only issue I can think of with hiding cheating isn't really a problem. Not sure removing historical runs is necessary. It's also committing to checking every run forever for a working video.

I don't believe there are any differences, all runs are on the EU version so far because all the runners are from the EU I guess. The Japanese version IS different however.

For the record I left because:

1. I wanted to for a long time because it was too much work for too much hate, and others were encouraging me to
2. I didn't want to deal with the massive fallout from something I had no input on (I also was not at home, I was in the middle of a hosting shift when I was told)
3. I was completely undermined when ILs were deleted and the action is completely indefensible
4. I wasn't the best mod in the first place since I never followed through with long-term stuff or talked much with others (e.g. forum rules)
5. I probably verified what felt like 80% of all ILs and was pretty pissed MH was annoyed by them (I wasn't verifying at ESA, hindsight this was a mistake and I could be wrong about numbers)

I also didn't "make the decision to ban Anti" I just wrote the forum post lol

Anyway sorry to fan the flames I just thought I should put this here since I'm not sure I actually said why I left anywhere

Update: After further investigation it has been found that Anti's GTA III runs have most likely also been cheated in the same fashion as the GTA:VC runs.

Anti was once again contacted about these claims, however this time seems reluctant to admit or disprove them. It should also be noted that in the original "confession" pastebin the date and list of runs given was already not complete as it began in 2018 but runs from as early as August 2017 were already found to be cheated in the same way, Anti later also admitted to have started cheating in the correct timeframe. There was also a previous incident involving GTA:SA which can now most likely be explained as cheating, once again using the same method as GTA:VC.

Because of these factors the relevant GTA mods again have had a discussion and have decided on a new ruling:

• Because of the cheating across multiple games and shifting timeframes, every run has been removed as we can no longer be without any doubt over any runs authenticity, and no longer wish to list any of Anti's runs on the leaderboard.

• Anti will be permanently banned from the leaderboard on speedrun.com in any games of the Grand Theft Auto series.

Edit: Powdinet made a full write up of the situation here: https://old.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/98utvr/grand_theft_auto_and_cheating_write_up_full/

A...

This is the second time you've posted this video to this forum. Stop.

tl;dr Fireside Gathering Mon-Fri during event. Pauper tournament again whenever is best for everyone (probably Friday).

Hey all again! Third year running a Fireside gathering now. As simplicity seems the best approach for these things this year we're just doing a good ol' Pauper tournament (Basic and Common cards only). This lets all the casual HS players still have the cards, but still allows clever deck building and play shine, and it was a lot of fun last year (hopefully some good anti-aggro decks will be brought this time though :P)! The bracket should be here when it's finished. We'll probably try to do this on Friday (as most will probably be there then, and it's hopefully a quiet day for me) however this can obliviously be changed.

Unfortunately due to limitations on how long and how many Firesides you're allowed to create (max 5, 8 hours each) the Fireside gathering will only be available 23-27, 12:00-20:00, so if you want Nemsy make sure to log into Hearthstone with whatever Wi-fi is at the venue during those times. Blizzard haven't announced what Fireside Brawl will be available during that month, but this month's Brawl doesnt seem too great. If it does turn out to be a good one then maybe we can try to organise a time to play that too.

Yeah this is a good idea, I'll go ahead and add an "Any% Glitchless" category, since I don't want to have to keep moving categories when they patch stuff :P

It is possible to run on older steam versions, I forget exactly how but using steamdb you can find and download the old versions.

@tolly2hot So here's the solution, pin a thread in the SA forums linking to the category extensions https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/va0t4 There kinda is, not directly a thread just for it but a general purpose thread. But I still agree there is potentially a discoverability problem (not anyone here's fault, just how SRC is)

Anyway this has gone on way too long. I went back and deleted most of the totally pointless shit, some of the semi-pointless shit I've left for conversation continuity. It's seems best to me that an Any% No Major Glitches (NMG) be added. From what I've seen a significant majority (D E M O C R A C Y) of active runners and routers, as well as others, want to at least TRY to add it and see what happens. And what @blacklev has been saying seems true to me. If Any% NMG isn't different enough right now, it will be in the future. Any% will only get more broken. @Powdinet provided some decent rules https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/txhqv/5#p79zc here and a few others expanded on it in a few others places but I'll write what I would add. Words r hard though so I'm probably not the best for writing these rules.

Name: @Mhmd_FVC suggested Any% (No onmission Flag Manipulation), a few people said Any% Dupeless, but I and a few others have issues with those names (which I've posted before) and NMG is basically the same thing, but I honestly think NMG is better, and flexible+future proof, and used in other speedruns.

Rules: No unintended OM0 Flag Manipulation No Mission Duplication (having more than one mission script active at the same time)

Edit: I should refresh before posting sorry. As for replacing ASM I personally don't feel strongly one way or the other. Not sure why it has to go but it's only purpose was as a "Dupeless" category.

I said I can't KEEP defending it. As in this is going on too long. I said "he was joking" in the previous threads, it wasn't new information. lel brought it up again so I had to speak about it again.

Sure maybe he didn't want to add it or discuss it. Never did I until 4 days after the first post about it (now). Can you say discussing this fun? I don't want to do this but I am because it needs to be.

You keep wording stuff like how we don't want to add it/discuss it, but I've never posted against it. From my first post I said it could be a good idea and talked about doing it.

Not sure why were talking about MH about the LS% discussions? He wasn't a mod then, why couldn't he throw his opinion without reading anything else, isn't everyone else doing that? Your mixing MH from now with MH from 2(?) years ago?

EDIT: Personally I think all runs should just be moved over, but requiring the runners to resubmit old runs could work too, would shift the workload to the runners instead of the mods though

Nagenowa is right this is devolving a bit. The past few posts between Ben and Lel is just attacking each other in a flame war and not really discussing moderation or the new category anymore.

@Powdinet Seems to cover everything known about right now. We'd obviously have to add more if anything did.

@MToms127 we're not a government. The main difference is that we are not paid by the people. I'm not sure that comparison is really fair.

1. I keep calling it a shitpost, because you keep posting the exact same quote. He's joking. He's shitposting, whatever, people do this crap, I think it's wrong, I don't agree with it, but he can post whatever he likes within reason as much as you can, you used this as a defence yourself earlier in discord about joking about proving proof or something. What I mean is that I don't think he actually intends to do what he said and prevent a leaderboard being added. Perhaps he felt that way before but again, good points have been raised and he probably doesn't think that way anymore, how should I know?

2. This thread exploded with mostly everyone's opinions on the matter. This is obviously a controversial change. Controversial because of what reasons doesn't matter. but it really makes no difference whether it is on here or not Some people feel differently, and not mods. Just because that's your opinion on the matter doesn't make it true..

3. I know nothing of this, it would require him to discuss it. If the reasons isn't good enough for you doesn't mean it isn't good enough. I can't really talk about this I have no idea.

And by the way, i recall you (mods) instantly locking/deleting LS% threads basically saying "we made up our minds" I remember this happening a long time ago as well. I don't remember the exact situation but I feel the locking was justified as there was a thread every other day about it. It's hard for us to talk about that now it was so long ago, maybe we were right, maybe we were wrong (probably). Not sure why it is relevant now.

Ohh I see sorry MToms I was thinking about the notifications being a flame war, sorry. As for what I said I meant that attacking each other directly like we were doing, and going off topic into other stuff was probably going to cause one. To be fair it doesn't seem like it has, but I just feel any discussion here goes that way :/

MH said what he said how many posts in? I don't know what he was thinking, I can't keep defending what he said as if I knew the reasons, I wasn't even there. But again, I think he can say whatever he wants because no one here is a professional and a lot of people shit post (I don't agree with this and everyone should be nice but w/e). His ACTIONS are what's important. If he actually did veto/block/undo us adding a new category then that would be something completely different and I'd agree with you. I think now some decent points have been brought up and we're actually discussing it, but 5 posts into this thread it was just "another one of those" threads.

Also the whole power thing, I don't feel that way? I'm not sure when I've ever used/abused my "power". I've actually been considering unmodding myself because the stress of doing this plus everything else I'm dealing with right now is getting to me. (this was in my discord general chat a few hours ago, before I posted anything)

I didn't actually make the decision on who was added as a mod, I only took part in the discussion.

I can also only consider people I know. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to know people I don't know well enough to trust them as mod. There have been instances of bad mods added who weren't fully trusted by the current mods but given a chance in the past on say GTA:V that caused pretty big problems. Havi was it, I don't quite remember?

I think a new mod making a simple mistake on the first day is pretty reasonable? Did it make a big difference? Did he not back down on it? Did he overrule everyone about it and have a say over them? I don't know the exact incident but I'd hope not.

And yeah, the club of buddies thing is reasonable. Again, hard to trust people you don't know. We discussed openly in the discord who should be mod, I'm not sure how else we could do it. Maybe discuss it here but that'll just be another shit show :/

I didn't call "discussion about appropriate behavior by the mods" a flame war? I said when you see so many notifcations before you read the post you assume it's a flame war (which we've had plenty of before between people like cooler, ben etc about people asking simple questions. Do I have to link examples?)

Everything tduva said is basically how I feel/what I meant too.

To me it sounds like you are saying MH is a bad mod for SA by saying: "This guy has nothing to do with SA - never actively ran the game or nothing, but gets a say over everyone else because he started running VC in 2013 - makes sense, right guys?". I don't think I'm the only one understanding that sentence that way. If anyone else understood it that way then can they say something? Are me and Ben alone in this? Also ben's post is a shit post. He does that. So do you.

Everyone struggled to understand your point because your problem apparently is: MH is having a say over everyone else. But, is he? I don't see where. You didn't really explain it. You explained why he has no SA experience which would make him a bad mod, but not where he has had a say over anyone else. Where has he had a say over someone? He's never overruled me or any other mod. If you mean your discord picture that you seem to be obsessed about then that's just him shitposting isn't it? Should I pull up a picture of you shitposting and keep referring to it over and over again? I feel the same way when I get 37 notifications, I guess that it's that many notifications because it's just another flame war and no discussion of value is being had (however that isn't true of this thread, this thread has actually be OK for the most part, but previously it was not which is why I get that reaction)

You didn't really provide much counter point just said the same thing again and not why. I'm not writing what I said again though. EDIT: Opps missed the end bit sorry.

• If 51% of people are in favour of it, then yes , it should be added, I am saying that you don't say whether that is right or not. OK, and I disagree. I think that you do have to filter the votes, that you do have to require more than 51% for controversial/big changes. You didn't really address my justifications for it so I don't know what else to say.

3. Yes that is more context now, and I think it makes what MH said make more sense. He feels that people are being cry babies about the topic, AGAIN is he not allowed to call people that? Is this one incident the whole basis of your "have a say over other people" thing? I just can't take this discord quote thing seriously from you when you called me out when I was quoting what you said in discord here and earlier on discord. Fine for you but not fine against you or something? Anyway my picture of what you said still stands. "Can't tell the difference between a joke and serious" or something like that. MH is shitposting, I don't think he'd actually. AGAIN he's not a "professional" moderator and can shit post if he wants.

*"and there was no one else who is suitable/wanted to"

• Please tell me what makes someone suitable to be mod and what makes MH so suitable?* I did, he has previous experience moderating VC but I'd forgive you for missing stuff in my massive post.

I'll assume since you only quoted a tiny fraction of what I said/my counter points to your post that you have no issues with everything else I said. Hopefully we can get back on track for discussing adding a new category now?

Yes, sliding being allowed is what I had in mind. I really hope no one has a problem with sliding being in every run.

"Glitchless" is a bad idea because what is a glitch and there are lots of minor things that would be super annoying, like getting into the passenger side door of a car and leaving the door open which kills the driver (is this a glitch?)

"No Major Glitches" is better because we don't have the "what is a glitch" problem as much and only really have a "what is a major glitch" problem instead.

I don't think starting a vote in this thread is a good idea. We're also discussing stuff like the name and whatnot so I don't think just voting on "Any% Dupeless" right now is what we should do.

Also sorry for the fighting but these allegations/complaints have been going on for a long time and I'm really sick of it.

EDIT: Zoton just suggested to me "Any% No Major Skips" which I like more than No Major Glitches, but what if a glitch that makes you faster comes out but doesn't skip stuff? Hmm

This is going to go off topic and turn into a flame war (and then need to be locked, but then that's censorship of calling out the mods which I've directly addressed and tried to avoid previously but apparently that happens) but sure I'll directly address everything you just said.

[big]The moderating is a mess SOMETIMES, and when i say the "mods" i obviously don't mean all 5 of them.[/big] Not sure what you mean by a mess sometimes but I assume it's your later points so I won't address that. Yes lumping all of us together is a bad idea and you should stop doing it (you continued to do it) and I don't know which mods you are talking about exactly.

[big]I said the mods aren't a problem, but the way they act sometimes is - there's nothing wrong with MH being mod.[/big] I don't know what you mean by the mods aren't a problem and nothing is wrong with MH being a mod. You are constantly calling him out for being mainly a VC runner (you literally did this a few posts up, or am I taking what you said out of context?). He was added because he has a history of modding VC well, and there was no one else who is suitable/wanted to. I also don't get what you mean by the way we act, I assume you mean non-professionally and saying stuff that is bad out of context like MH has? We're not professionals, I try to act professionally and I'm a "nice guy" online but that doesn't mean others do/have to. If MH wants to call people crybabies he's allowed to do that as much as you are allowed to call us/me babies.

[big]You're constantly being babies[/big] [small][small]oh hey look at that[/small][/small] [big]that need to get special attention because you're constantly acting over-important - it is a CONSTANT fight with you all to get anything done - it's so crazy to me that people actually get behind the mods.[/big] I'm not sure what you mean by needing special attention or acting over important, you keep saying this though so I guess it has something to do with the rest of what you said. You might not be talking about me though but your lumping us all together so I don't know. It being a fight to get anything done personally is because modding this is a lot of work. I'm not doing this for any reason other than wanting to. I need to want to do this. All the negativity hurts motivation quite a lot. Sure I know I am pretty lazy with stuff (hows those rules going Josh?) but I'm doing it in my spare time for no reason other than wanting to.

[big]Can you explain why shouldn't putting a category on a leaderboards be sorted by democracy instead of 5 people?[/big] This threads existence and the Category Extensions existence should be enough proof of a "democracy" here. Even in a democracy there are still people at the top who actually implement these decisions and have the final say. If every mod action could be put down to a simple vote and no one actually had to be mod then we could try that. But no system exists, and I'm not sure it would even be a good idea because not everyone who could vote actually has an informed opinion on the matter of voting. For example I spent the time and looked around at other speedruns to see if they have had similar issues with categories and how it effected them, how many other people in this democracy just want a thing and post? I don't know, you need to filter this, take educated guesses. Maybe we're wrong, but someone has to do it, someone has to filter the flood of information and user opinions.

[big]*YES, i said that, and if people want LS% or whatever else "nonsense" (in your opinion) and the MAJORITY want it on the leaderboards, then let it be. *[/big] Again, issues with pure democracies and first past the post voting. Again, I've actually done the legwork to look into this (I don't mean to sound like "LOOK AT MY 200 IQ" but it's what I did) and a pure democracy isn't always the best solution so just because the MAJORITY want it doesn't always make it correct.

[big]If you don't agree, then this is an example of acting over-important[/big] I'm not sure how to respond to this, I hope I explained why this isn't the case above. Isn't this kind of statement a logical fallacy or a ultimatum or something? (words are hard)

[big]Do the mods have an IQ of 200 and know what is right or wrong 100% of the time?[/big] I like to think I put more effort into thinking about/discussing these things more than the average user (as previously stated here) so I would have a better understanding then average. I'm not right or wrong 100% (and I've backed down on things plenty of times(toggle frame limiter am i rite?)) and it doesn't make my opinion correct over others, but it means I have some leeway here.

[big]Are yall some fucking speedrun experts?[/big] I mean, I've been doing this a long time (watching for longer), I'm a "professional" speedrunner/streamer/content creator, ran a podcast about speedrunning for awhile, do research into other runs, moderated SA since SpeedrunRecords began, attended and help run ESA for several years. This response makes me sound like a self-righteous prick obviously but it's the truth. I'm not sure who would count as a "speedrun expert" (I wouldn't call myself that) but I feel like I'm a lot closer to it than the average user here yes. This doesn't make my word final on everything, and I'm not "better" than other people I just have obsoletely no life compared to others. If anything being a "speedrun expert" makes me a worse person.

[big]Even if you look at the old "bring LS% to the leaderboard" threads the ammount of people who want it vs the ammount who don't - there's no big difference. Even looking at this Thread, seems like more people want Dupeless on the boards than people who don't[/big] OK, lets say it's not far off 50% (even if it is/isn't). A change to the current format/rules/country SHOULD require a higher than 51% vote. Again this is the problem with first past the post voting and pure democracies as I've stated previously. You seem to believe that if 51% of people want something then everything should be changed immediately to fit this. I personally don't believe this is the case but this is turning into polictal discussion. (Also who said Any% Dupeless isn't being added? We're discussing it, I'm even in favour of it!?!)

[big]Nice one grabbing a completely out of context picture to trick people who aren't in the discord.[/big] I mean, you literally did exactly the same thing with your pictures and provided no context but yes, I did do that. It was because you did it, I was doing it back to you. The contradictiveness here is astounding. I feel the context is relevant to my point so I felt it was OK, as did you with your pictures probably. But yes we should probably stop posting out of context pictures.

[big]Here's MH saying something similar, now unless he has some kind of specific thing for joking about being power hungry, i think he is very serious when he says this - i can guarantee if you look through his messages you'll find more stuff like this[/big] Without context it's hard to know what he means by "won't change anything though". Does he mean his own mind? Does it mean the popular opinion? Does he mean as you want it to mean that nothing in this thread will change anything on the leaderboard? I don't know, perhaps he is shitposting, who knows. But he is not a professional so, again, he can be as much of a dick online as you can. But he has posted in this thread, and this thread exists to discuss this, and he is not the only mod. If I have to add a category myself without MH wanting it then I will I guess?

[big]"when I called him out on stuff he previously said"[/big] Call it out here and i will tell you why you're wrong. But be sure to not post something taken out of context like you like to do. See, the difference here is that I don't want to sit here, go through a load of "proof" and call someone out. While you seem to attack people/mods all the time I'm quite happy to either just put up with it or leave and not attack people. This probably makes me a "pussy" or whatever, and you'd be right. I hate this conflict, I want to avoid it at any costs. I guess this is a flaw of mine but I'm only human so I'll admit to that. I've seen enough from you to make my own mind up, I don't feel the need to try to make you change (as if arguing online ever changed anyone)

[big]Mods are getting called out btw, time to to abuse power and lock the thread.[/big] I've directly tried to avoid this exact issue before, it's even in my rules post about how to best avoid this problem and how I avoid moderation before to not cause censorship. I'm not sure what makes you think that calling out mods gets the thread locked, I try so hard to avoid this problem.