A big point that also affects my suggestion warrants a reply: "1) if a ban were to be implemented on a map, the ban isn't enforceable

• since the trick is possible to do without remapping button to analog, it wouldn't be possible to tell whether or not a player is using the remap, unless controller cam and facecam were also required" - IR

Since this specific framewalk is very hard to perform without remapping (though you can practice by walking up to the penguin in Cool, Cool Mountain), I deem it unlikely that this would be popular for full-game 120 star and 45 star runs, and so I don't see a reason to give framewalking runners the benefit of the doubt here. Ways to support a potential claim that you are framewalking using the original N64 or the Hori controller would include:

• A controller cam
• Holding your controller into your facecam
• An input display. If there is a single frame of a joystick input that should be impossible with just digital inputs, that heavily supports your claim that you did it on an analog joystick. You can amplify this by spinning or twitching the joystick during the ledgegrab, the box break (US), or the star dance, introducing way more directions than you can possibly add to different buttons on the controllers in question
• An in-depth analysis of your high-resolution and framedropless footage showing that you must have held a variety of directions, specifically more than possible on console. With experienced secondary verifiers that the verifiers could reach out to (e.g. TASers), you could do this on the jump off the pillar if the runner holds any non-cardinal direction If you can't verify that you did the run without the remapping, you would simply submit your run as using the remapping. That wouldn't be cheating, as it is never more honorable to use the remapping than not to.

"At the very least, if it doesn't get banned, there should be something added to the leaderboard to signify the use of this remapping as to not directly compare runs with and without it." (Simply). I actually suggested this on YouTube already, and I will elaborate why I think that a filterable variable is both critical and enough. Variables like this currently exist for whether the game was played on a US or a JP N64, and whether the footage was good enough to properly verify the run. Other games have filters for whether the run used DLCs, Amiibos, whether they took breaks in an extremely long run (all BotW), what patch they used (e.g. Celeste), or even for specific glitches like one in Anno 1404 that gets rid of some of the game's downtime and annoying trivial mouseclicks, but also mutes the game's audio for the runner - overall a large variety of things can be indicated by a filterable variable.

Why is it critical? Because the remap does provide a material advantage that costs money (unless you do it on Emulator, but the Emulator board should just follow what we do with the N64 board, isn't really a variation of the intended equipment for playing the game (unlike say Joycons for Super Mario Odyssey, which can be used besides or on top of the Pro Controller for a formerly optimal strat in Lake Kingdom and a few other theoretical strats), and is an inherently different way of how certain inputs are made (digital instead of analog) that was never intended for any official release of the game. All of those points coming together make me think that having no indication or separation available at all wouldn't be fair towards runners who stick to the official and established SM64 speedrunning gear.

Why is it enough? Because once you have a variable like this in place, anyone can either select to filter for only runs without this remapping, or the filter is even set to hide runs with the remapping by default (depending on how the mods choose to set it up). We see from Siglemic and the active part of the top 5 that the remapping isn't something that too obviously compromises the idea of speedrunning the original game (which itself hasn't been modified) without macros or TAS too heavily. Especially with buy-ins like the N64 and the Hori controller already in use, we see that while this speedrun can be performed casually or even for good stream fame without heavy expenses, the top of the board are able and willing to invest into additional purchases and compete on the level where the times accomplishable are the lowest, as long as an input is an input and the game itself is SM64 on N64. With a filter in place, anyone who doesn't agree with this mindset can filter out those runs and be competitive with the rest. Another thing to note is that players on Emulator have easy and free access to this option of mapping a digital to an analog input, and many romhacks of SM64 are probably made with digital directional inputs in mind (though of course not SM64 itself).

2 questions remain from my side: Should the runs with the remapping be shown or hidden by default? Hiding those runs by default would be a big step in discouraging the use of this technology as the personal best runs wouldn't be obvious to the eye. Showing them might actually encourage the trick outside of the part of the community that considers this modification not legitimate. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other here. And: How do we handle this issue in tournaments? Even though being in line with the board would be intuitively appealing, I would find it the most fair towards lower budget runners if this could be banned in tournaments like the 45 star invitational unless optionally if in a specific matchup both players agreed to use it. Another option would be a 5-8 second penalty for using it, as the framewalk might save 5-8 seconds on average. I'd like to hear more feedback on that.

When we first introduced Glitchless/Exploitless, it was meant as a way to play the levels with strats closer to intended gameplay. Most importantly, we wanted runners to come up with ways of outplaying the AI lords without the house exploit, the multiple worker glitches, or the disbanding of hundreds of slaves/laddermen for insane amounts of taxes, however we didn't know that categories like "Bug Limit" exist in other speedgames so we decided to ban anything that we considered a glitch or exploit in the general case, and could also be reasonably banned without also hitting intended mechanics.

I don't know whether runners of this game might be deterred by the long list of things you're not allowed to do, when other games like Super Mario 64 allow you to perform a variety of glitches for minor timesaves. I could also imagine that it might be reasonable to strat and run a whole Crusader or Warchest trail full of Bug Limit completions, but it's unlikely that anyone would invest the time and effort into following every Glitchless/Exploitless rule in every level. Furthermore, runners may disagree on what is an exploit and what is not - for example, someone once challenged me to match their glitchless run which included no attacking before 5 minutes, but made very intentional use of blocking the workers' paths to flower gardens to dodge some of the productivity nerf. On the other hand, we allowed deleting structures for resources even when they were handed to you by the game, as well as stacking military units on towers/walls as sometimes troops will just do that by themselves and there's not much you can do to prevent that without using less options than the game gives you.

As a result, I'm suggesting to replace Glitchless/Exploitless with the less strict "Bug Limit" category encompassing only the most central restrictions:

• No blocking an AI lord's castle layout with buildings
• No allocating more workers than intended to any given workspace
• No disbanding troops to collect taxes from above maximum peasants (above maximum being more than your houses support, more than your workspaces and your campfire support (the campfire supports 24), or both). Smaller glitches (e.g. waypoints across swamps to avoid slowdown) and exploits (e.g. moving and/or splitting the stockpile) would be allowed as they, while nice to have, don't really break the game. All Glitchless/Exploitless runs would remain valid as they satisfy those rules. Does any past, present or future runner want their Glitchless/Exploitless board to remain pure from runs that potentially beat their times using smaller glitches and exploits? If so, please reply.

Also, feel free to document your personal bests achieved under any rules you want on your own playlists, spreadsheets, etc., an official board isn't the only way to let the world know you did a run

One issue is that it's difficult to set up rules for what you can and can't use. Levels like this would be NG+, which would raise the question of whether runners would actually stick to playing with the competitively reasonable Level 1 plants. Then there's premium plants, Zen garden boosts, bonuses from completing parts of the early worlds, spells, purchased plant food - all of that would have to be regulated to make for a fair and competitive category. Then there's just too many levels for that in this game. I'll have a talk back on whether adding some of the minigame/special levels like Beghouled or Vasebreaker would make sense adding, but the level 1 and F2P restrictions would still apply there. Also I'm not certain on how long a given level would even stay mostly unchanged or in existence at all across patches

It's really hard and takes a ton of effort to learn. It is currently used in the 10 and 13 capture speedrun, where it often loses minutes because the runner fails the chain And those runners who can do it have sunk many hours into learning the glitch

heard 12 runners was a mark, but if a category is considered good, less will suffice (see Blindfolded). I definitely like the unique star count paired with the extra Castle movement

just reset skip n stuff

Why not 2+4+8+16?

If it's non-arbitrary enough - like no midair cap bounces, similar to how 70 star is no BLJ - maybe you could get it on the CE board or the CE spreadsheet WITH a run. Not just trying to list all of the exploits, that's way too subjective

We're gonna know which of the guesses to laugh about when we understand the numbers of all of the mechanics in maybe a year

It's 300-(268+1), not (300-268)+1. You got a 31.

I actually quite like how there are a few levels where anyone can get TWR, and then tons of levels where you can actually get UWR by performing better than anyone before you. If runners gave the feedback that too many of the good ILs are optimized to the second and thereby dead to them, I'd prefer to first look into adding more and harder IL categories like All Big Coins or No Powerups.

One suggestion was 1 full screen. Afaik that's 16?

Afaik you're gonna be low on coins that way. Which is good because else blindfolded would be completely pointless

This CE board currently looks quite cluttered. I suggest moving the smallest, most inactive, and/or most pointless of extra categories to a miscellaneous tab so they're still accessible but don't clutter as much.

Thoughts?

A lighter version of this would be All Hats. Also remember you can collect unique moons as well.

please put the topic of your ideas in the title please do a run or make a route before asking please join the discord

Just join the SMO speedrunning Discord while you're at it. Link is at the left column on the main board

• Please make descriptive titles

• It has been considered

• We don't add categories without runs

• First, classical Dark Side is getting popular, then we'll see

• Moving Darker Dupes to a subcat in Darker is being considered

• Check out the Discord