Forums  /  Grand Theft Auto Category Extensions  /  SA City Segments and their purpose
  Makkebakke

This is something I've had issue with for some time, and has become even more of an issue since the following ahem discussion: https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/fq4jd

The general consensus seems to be that the City Segments hold no value on their own. They are simply segments of GTA:SA Any% that can be practiced on their own, but once mastered become entirely irrelevant to runners. Maybe they're an interesting resource for people who are curious about what a good time / the best time is for one particular segment.

That raises some questions, however. Sure LS, Badlands and SF pretty much mirror GTA:SA Any%, but that doesn't count for all categories. Most people simply make a Highlight within their Any% run to post up here, but that's not possible for all segments.

- Desert% is done with LV unlocked, something that doesn't mirror the leading Any% strats, and skips having to set up 0* glitch. Secondly, Verdant Meadows isn't duped since N.O.E. falls outside of this particular category.
- Runners make sure to acquire a parachute before starting Stowaway in LV% to make the mission significantly faster.

This does not accurately reflects segments of an Any% run, and thus can't be argued to be practice for such.

Originally posted by KZ_FREWif LS actually had some unique routing or rationale to it within the category on its own, that would give it some legitimacy as a main or (more likely) misc category. But it doesn't. LS is contained within every main category.
Unique routing and rationale is also why NMG was moved to the main boards. ...

Following this rationale, Desert% could very well be listed as a Misc. category on the main board. LV% also, but the difference is obviously significantly smaller.

In conclusion, Desert% doesn't fit the descriptor given to the City Segments category-group. To my understanding the segment rules have been updated in the past when leading Any% strats changed, so why has that at some point stopped happening?

Ark likes this. 
  MToms127

I don’t remember the rules for the segments ever being changed. Also the categories don’t have to mirror any% at all, they don’t have any restrictions on glitches used or anything like that. The category is “complete the desert segment” not “complete the desert segment with the rest of the game prior to the run starting being played the same as some arbitrary any% run.”

Kamiks0320 likes this. 
  Super ModS.

"categories dont even actually mirror any%"

all the more reason to not even take them this serious

Leon_salad, Zachoholic and 4 others like this. 
  Makkebakke

So you agree that in their current state, they are completely meaningless. Great. Why keep them around, then?

I'd strongly prefer a change rather than removing them, though.

EDIT: I've only now noticed that a precedent has already been set on whether the City Segments should mirror GTA:SA Any% in this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/gtamemes/thread/o3bhg
With that, I'm only more curious as to why Desert% has strayed so far from Any%.

 
  Super ModEnglish_Ben

@Makkebakke, that's a strawman argument. S never said they are completely meaningless, he said to stop taking them so seriously. The LV rule change was done as part of a bigger update, because people were starting with saves that already had toreno's missions completed. This is drastically different than what you are describing, and strawmanning certainly doesn't help your argument

 
  Makkebakke

"Don't take them so seriously" is not a counter-point to my argument. Even if I'm the only person in the world that "cares", in my view, there is a problem that needs addessing. Explain to me why it is not a problem, then.

Ignoring the point about the parachute, a single GTA:SA Any% can be divided into City Segments, except for the Desert segment. It doesn't fit in. The NOE mission falls inbetween the Desert and LV segments. Of course you can skip it, but the strats necessary to do so won't be included when timing ends at Learning To Fly.

I see a problem with this. Tell me why you disagree beyond simply not caring.

I'd like to know what the intended purpose of the City Segments is.
If it's to practice GTA:SA Any% in separate segments, then the rules need updating.
If it's similar to ILs then I really don't see the need for the rule stating that the start-point must be similar to what can be found in Illuminati's saves.

 
  Super ModEnglish_Ben

If we had to make a change every time a vocal minority disliked something about these boards I'd have zero free time to myself. Retroactively changing the city segments every time a change is made in any% is not something I intend to do, and as I said before the only reason it happened with LV was because it was part of a much bigger problem

 
  Super ModS.

Desert segment begins when desert is unlocked (YKBB), and ends when the LV safehouses become purchaseable (phonecall after flight school). Badlands segment works the same way (area unlocked after TGS, safehouses unlocked after AYGTSF). Minor changes have been made to the definition though (such as not requiring the phone call, just flight school, and allowing a save after YKBB) to make it a bit more manageable.

People wanted city segments, they were given city segments. Yes, it comes with all these issues. Indeed, I was not giving a counter point. That was not my intention. Unsure what the rules say exactly currently, but NOE and post should fall under LV segment. If not, then I agree that that is an issue that needs addressing. However, I was under the impression that the issue discussed here was 'segment runs dont reflect any%' runs, which is an issue inherent to segment runs and EBen has already addressed this.

```So you agree that in their current state, they are completely meaningless. Great. Why keep them around, then?```
Guess I might as well address this before I post: While your jump to conclusions was illogical like EBen pointed out, it so happens to be that your conclusion is accurate. I do think they are meaningless, hence them being on these boards and not the main. Why keep them around? Because there's serious demand for them. I avoided the use of the word 'completely' before 'meaningless' though. Of course there's some merit to them, but not enough for them to be taken super serious.

Tl;dr: That's fine, not much of substance in this post anyway. Just speaking my mind.

 
  Makkebakke

Originally posted by "S."Unsure what the rules say exactly currently, but NOE and post should fall under LV segment. If not, then I agree that that is an issue that needs addressing.

Originally posted by "Desert Rules"(Timing end) Learning To Fly passed

Originally posted by "Las Venturas Rules"Timing = Stowaway start (with no missions completed in LV)

https://i.imgur.com/dW2oT4w.jpg

I'm still under the assumption that an Any%-relevant Desert segment board would be much more useful than what we have currently, but that's just what it is, an assumption. And if the community doesn't care enough to speak out, then that question will never be answered.

I only want to see this board be as useful as it can be. I continue to believe that changing what the Desert segment is will make it more useful. You assume I'm alone in that opinion, and I assume I'm not. But laziness within the mod team should not be limiting the board's potential. And when someone gives a reaction as empty as your initial one, I have to assume the words unspoken.

 
  Makkebakke

After having now mulled this over for a good few days, I'm fine to leave this be. I was never demanding change, I was demanding an explanation. If there is no community uproar, you shouldn't make a chance, I agree, since that would mean the deletion or alteration of many posted runs. If my points were met with even the slightest bit of understanding and/or respect, I would've been able to say that much sooner.