There's an elephant in the room, and I think it's time to be addressed.

Explanation:

Throughout the past couple of months I'm sure many people have heard of the term "USB Loader" and all of the drama associated with this. I bring this post today not to start arguments, but to open up a discussion about an issue with the leaderboards. First, let's hop into exactly how everything came about.

USB Loader was used for a LONG time in Luigi's Mansion and previously not to have been thought to be a large difference in timing from disk. As more and more people started to use USB Loader (myself included), we came to a realization that it saves a significant amount time more than people once thought. Although that time may not be determined as it's impossible to time every loading zone, door animation, double and triple animation, etc. consistently, it was determined that USB Loader was unfairly faster than disc.

After much argument, the community came up with the decision to mark USB Loaded runs with a separate marker on the leaderboards [emu]. Although it may have made some sense at the time, the community later came to the decision to flat out ban USB Loaded runs from being submitted to the leaderboards. This leaves the lingering [emu] times that we see here today.

Issue:

As it stands, there are no USB Loaded times allowed to be submitted to the leaderboard. On the contrary to that, there are currently USB Loaded runs [emu] still left on the leaderboard from the aftermath of the previous decisions. This leaves a large gap in fair timing between people who are striving to get to the top and can't get there from a significantly unfair disadvantage. Not only that, but the OoB category is near impossible to obtain a WR in because of timing differences from USB Loader to disc. All of our #1 times in three important categories are on banned versions of the game.

Proposal:

My proposal is to erase [emu] times completely from the Luigi's Mansion Leaderboards. This will create a sense of fairness throughout the community and not competing against unfair and BANNED versions of the game itself. This is not a particular attack against anyone, but rather a want to create a sense of fairness throughout the leaderboards.

Pros:

• A sense of fairness throughout the leaderboards and community by playing and competing on equal grounds
• A less confusing leaderboard system to any newcomers into the Luigi's Mansion community
• A fair and accurate documentation of who's times are faster will be available rather than guessing due to unknown timed version differences

Cons:

• People will have their personal times removed from the leaderboard and will have to obtain new disc PBs

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions. Please post on this thread with your ideas on how to contribute and fix this problem. I'm going to leave this thread up until Friday, 4/1/2016 at 11:59 PM Eastern time zone and we will see what the majority thinking is.

Please don't insult each other, keep things civil and factual, and we can come to an understanding and conclusion to this nonsense.

Thanks, Adam (GC)

ALRIGHTY! So, it's past the deadline now officially.

After the discussion, it seems as if the vast majority of the community that posted in here wants the ban lifted from S+Q in Luigi's Mansion runs. There was slight opposition, but realistically I'd say at least 80-90% of people were for lifting the ban. That being said, unless something was overlooked or miscalculated, I believe the ban from here on out is no longer in effect as discussed. Enjoy your save warping everyone.

Early next week I'm going to tackle another issue I see and we'll talk about things the same way. Stay tuned everyone.

P.S. Thank you everyone for your contributions. This was the most pleasant way I think we've ever dealt with an issue in the Luigi's Mansion community and I'd like to continue doing things like this as well. We can avoid drama and discuss things rationally and take time to think things out rather than explode into a fit of anger. Again, thanks <3

@KingRedEagle Your opinion is cool, but just know that there really won't be "time and effort" involved. After tonight, it will either be allowed or it won't. We have all discussed and think this is a fair process, with a fair deadline. There won't be anything beyond this unless people decide to spark up their own drama. But I have a strong feeling that that won't happen considering the resounding feeling on the issue.

Not only that, if someone has a mark next to their name it can create some drama as we've previously seen. If someone is in 2nd place and doesn't use S+Q while someone is in 1st place and does use S+Q and the margin is 11 seconds, there will be discrepancy. If this saved MINUTES and broke the game, then maybe. But this is not the case. Just my opinion, others can voice theirs.

I also have seen Strawpolls get "hacked" so to speak. Not reliable in the slightest. That being said, this is a good method with solid input nonetheless <3

Vark, I like the idea to try to make sure everything is fairly compensated for. I'd say if this was a major difference in the run that changes the route entirely, then yeah do the columns. However, since it's 11 seconds and you can still technically get wr w/o the trick, I don't think the additional column is truly necessary. If something better comes out of S+Q in the future, then maybe. But for now I'd say no.

Also, we're going to give this until Friday night until 11:59 eastern and from there we'll see what the majority is. If there's a clear one side then we'll lift the ban. I believe that's fair. I'll add this to the original post as well.

No need to argue. Grabbing people's opinions. I'm assuming we'll wind up going with majority on this unless someone comes up with a valid reason to it being banned in the first place. But let's see how things play out.

Skozzy made a timing difference. It's 11 seconds saved. Link is in original post to not spam the thread.

So. Here we go.

For those who are unaware, we'll start with what Weston Save Warp is. This trick allows you to save a bit of time from saving after the Weston boo and then quit the game, load up the save file and wind up in the foyer. This is faster than walking back up by 11 seconds optimally (proof here highlight shows timing process)

Currently, the trick is banned from all runs of Luigi's Mansion (except low% to my knowledge) and I'm not really sure why. It's not exactly breaking or corrupting the game. All this trick really is doing is using a function built into the game to save some time. Is it hard? Yeah. The 150 health boo needs to be done in one cycle in order for it to save time. But what's the worst that can happen, you miss the trick and lose 11 seconds?

That being said, post your opinions here and hopefully we can come up with a consensus since no one is trying to talk about it. I believe that Weston Save Warp should be allowed for all categories, and I'd love to hear what everyone else things about it as well.

Thanks, Adam (GC)

EDIT: Just to clarify, the proposal is to lift the ban on saving and quitting thus allowing Weston Save Warp.

EDIT 2: We're going to give this until Friday night until 11:59 eastern and from there we'll see what the majority is. If there's a clear one side then we'll lift the ban. I believe that's fair.

Since there is no in game timing, emulator is not fair to people who run on disc since it eliminates not only loading times, but lag in many of the rooms. An official disc is needed to run the game! =]

There's already a discord group for the LM community, it's just relatively inactive. https://discord.gg/0Wii8JQOzbj2rAx1

The more active thing is a skype group. I'm not personally in it, for personal reasons, but ask a few people in the community and they can get you in.

Armory room has the most lag in the game, expect the game to slow down to like literally 10 fps. It's rough, especially for the boo, just beware of health on all ghosts and you should be fine though :D

Wish you could get this on film, kind of hard to picture and test without one.

I'm sure you know, but make sure to play on Hidden Mansion.

I personally play by pulling in the opposite direction, maintaining control but adjusting as to where the ghost may be, and re-pulling the stick every 10 health. Kind of hard to explain through text without showing a controller, but yeah.

Also Sarcrai made a basics of running LM video, I suggest giving it a watch.

Hope this helps <3