If you try to enter the portal too high, the game will crash. Entering it from lower should fix that problem. The loading zone bleeds down pretty far, so as long as you are down far enough, you will be fine.

Ok it seems discussion is done here, so I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. As for adding miscellaneous categories, I've been asked about a number of them for this game, and I will add reasonable miscellaneous categories if there is interest in them/if somebody actually does a run of them, e.g. 95%. The same will hold true for DE - if enough people want to continue to do runs using it, I will make it a miscellaneous category, but for now, it is not necessary.

Thank you again everyone!

After some research as well as some discussion with other Arrangement runners, it has been decided to combine the Pac-Man Collection and Namco Museum Arrangement leaderboards. Any runs of Pac-Man Arrangement should now be submitted here regardless of the version played.

-Joe

After reading through and weighing the arguments presented on this subject, as well as after some internal discussions with the other moderators, it has been decided that disc tray manipulation, or disc eject, is no longer allowed in the 3 main categories for Pac-Man World. It will continue to be allowed in 0 Points at this point in time since that run cannot currently be completed without it.

This decision was not an easy one to make. The inescapable fact that disc eject is hardware manipulation, coupled with the fact that it is not necessary to complete runs of the main categories led us to this decision. We believe that speedruns of this game, much like other games, should take advantage of things solely within the game and not abuse things outside of the game in order to manipulate things within it. The time difference between using and not using the exploit we deemed to be irrelevant, as this was a decision based on whether or not manipulating the console itself should be allowed.

Any runs currently present on the leaderboards that utilized disc eject will remain, as they complied with the ruleset at the time they were completed. Any runs completed and submitted after this post that use disc eject will be rejected. Anyone who has completed a run before this post was made and has not submitted it yet will have one week to submit it, as those runs also complied with the rules at the time they were completed. After this grace period, any runs submitted using disc tray manipulation will be rejected.

I want to thank everyone for the discussion that took place regarding this matter. I will leave this thread open for a short time so discussion here can continue if people still have things they would like to say, and once discussion dies down the thread will be locked. Anyone who has questions they do not want to ask in public can feel free to contact me through Discord, Twitch whispers, or whatever medium they see fit. I know that not everyone will agree with this decision, but we feel as though this is the appropriate course of action going forward for this game and for this community.

-Joe, Rob, and Beef

I want to respond to a couple points made here so far:

@Ringo and @Marsh: I don't like the idea of a cut-off time, as it's fairly likely somebody could have a PB just above what the cut-off time is, and then if they PB using the strat again and go below the cut-off time, they can't submit their run? The fact that this even could happen is what discourages me from considering this as a viable option.

@Cyberdemon and @Beef: The idea of sub-categories for every category doesn't sound all too appealing either because the fundamental nature of the run and the strats used do not change whether or not disc eject is used. It is just an alternative method for performing the exact same skips and does not alter the route in any way. If disc eject had the effect that, say, memory manipulation does in Crash Bash, where the entire nature of the run is changed, then I could see the merits for having separate leaderboards, but due to what it actually does, I don't see this as the appropriate course of action.

@Rob: Allowing a strat in an attempt to mitigate the advantage that a particular console may have over another console I don't believe to be a valid reason for allowing said strat.

Thank you again everyone for the discussion that's taken place so far. A decision regarding this will be made within the next week or so.

This post is to serve as a place to discuss further allowance of disc tray manipulation in Pac-Man World speedruns.

For anybody who is unaware, there is an exploit in Pac-Man World that can be achieved by opening the disc tray on the console to prevent areas of the game from loading until the player has bypassed particular obstacles. This is most notably used in Down The Tubes in all categories in order to skip the bell door and in the overworld to perform gate skip in Any%. Due to some recent discoveries regarding both of these skips, several people (myself included) would like to have a discussion surrounding this trick and whether or not it should still be allowed.

When disc eject was first found, the community surrounding this game was quite small, and all of the platforms they were performing runs on (PS1, PS2, and Emu) could all use disc eject, so since everybody was on equal footing, the trick was allowed from the start. However, as the community has grown and the number of platforms people run the game on has increased, this is no longer true. Players on the PSN download version and on PSTV are unable to perform this trick, and thus are at a disadvantage under the current ruleset. Disallowing disc eject would put all platforms on equal footing in terms of the strat pool that players can pull from. Although certain platforms would become faster than others due to load time differences, I think that it is crucial that any strat that one player is able to do can be done by any other player.

I want to make it clear that disc eject is not a glitch, nor does it cause an effect that cannot be achieved in-game. It takes advantage of an in-game mechanic by abusing something outside of the game itself, which is why it is an interesting case of hardware manipulation, unlike other games, where opening the disc tray, tilting the cartridge, etc. causes glitches that are not normally in the game or cannot normally be done to occur.

If disc eject ends up being banned as a result of the discussion on this post, then the rules will be updated promptly and all runs submitted after the change that use disc eject will be rejected. Any runs currently on the boards would remain since they complied with the submission rules at the time they were completed and verified.

Another option that people may discuss is making separate categories or adding a variable to distinguish between runs that use disc eject and those that do not if it is decided that the trick should still be allowed. I would argue that disc eject is not game-breaking enough to warrant this distinction since unlike level skip, wall skip, etc., the fundamental nature of the run is not changed if disc eject is used or not. Again though, I'm not going to make decisions for everyone, so I want to hear people's thoughts.

I want to know what everyone thinks about this trick. Please keep discussions and arguments both relevant and civil. I'll leave this post up for a week or two so people have time to formulate their thoughts and opinions and then proceed from there based on what people say on this post. Thank you!

-Joe

I've noticed that there are a couple things regarding the PMA leaderboards that could be changed. They are as follows:

1. Add NTSC-J as a region for the game since the game was released in Japan.
2. Add GBP (Gameboy Player) as a console. It's technically the piece of hardware some people play on and should be added as a choice when submitting
3. Clarify in the Arrangement rules that the difficulty settings cannot be modified and all runs must be done on default difficulty, i.e. normal, 3 lives, extra life at 40K pts.

I use a Dazzle DVD Recorder HD - works really well for composite/S-video. HD cap cards are stupid expensive, so if you wanna capture newer consoles I'd recommend getting a converter to save yourself some money.

I think the actual console you played the game on should be listed as an option while submitting, not just the platform the disc is for. For instance, if you play a PS1 game not on an actual PS1, you should be able to submit as PS2, PS3, PSTV, or whichever piece of hardware the game was played on. So I think Wii, PS3, and Xbox360 (?) should be added as console options when submitting.

So while doing some testing today on the N64 version, I found out that this version is dramatically different from the PS and DC versions. 6 levels are missing - Slip Sliding Away, Shock Therapy, Sand Witch, Boulder Over, Out To Launch, and Bats A Wrap. Furthermore, after defeating Gobblin, you can immediately fight Mesmerelda provided you have 42 stars. Therefore, I think it is a wise idea to make the consoles separate categories. New categories should now be:

Any% (PS1/DC) Any% (N64) 100% (PS1/DC) 100% (N64)

If someone does a full run of the GBA version, it will also be added as a separate category most likely. Let me know what you all think of this proposal.

-Joe

Yeah that's a TAS-only trick unfortunately. I've spent some time messing with it and getting wedged behind that sign and getting shot upwards is basically impossible. Sky's old TAS used it, but his new one doesn't actually, so I think it is actually slower because if you do that, you have to run backwards a little to cause the next portion of the level to load.

This post is here to explain the differences between each console and version for Pac-Man World and to illustrate which versions are the fastest for which categories. (Updated December 12, 2017)

Any%: NTSC-U is the fastest version, but only by 2 or 3 seconds over NTSC-J. NTSC-J has a slower final set of moving platforms at the end of Barrel Blast, and the health refills after completing levels make optimal death abuses in Perilous Pipes and Ghostly Garden more difficult to set up, particularly the latter. Although PAL has the fastest movement, Wall Skip, Bell Door Skip, and Gate Skip are all not possible on this version, and these skips save far more time than the faster movement does.

NTSC-U > NTSC-J >>>>> PAL

All Levels: NTSC-J is the fastest version. King Galaxian, the 2nd boss, takes fewer hits per eye to defeat and saves around 10 seconds as compared to NTSC-U/PAL. Krome Keeper, the 5th boss, has 2 less HP on NTSC-J, which makes that fight faster by around 30 seconds as compared to NTSC-U/PAL. PAL has the fastest movement speed, but Bell Door Skip is not possible, putting this version about on par with NTSC-U.

NTSC-J >> NTSC-U ~ PAL

100%: NTSC-J is by far the fastest version. Marathon Mode is not required for 100% completion on this version, saving over 40 minutes over NTSC-U/PAL. Faster movement speed on PAL makes it better than NTSC-U but still far worse than NTSC-J.

NTSC-J >>>>>>> PAL >> NTSC-U

Consoles: PSTV > PS2 FDS >> PS2 SDS > PS1 Emu ~ PS1 ~ PS3 ~ PSN

NTSC-U console will be faster than NTSC-J emulator for all categories because of load times. I believe you have been running on NTSC-U console for your runs so far, so stick with that because FDS will give you way faster loads than any PS1 emulator will.

Also, if you plan on running on a PS emu, make sure you choose "No" for FDS, since the emu is a PS1 emu and not a PS2 emu, meaning it does not have FDS capabilities.

Most versions of ePSXe should be fine. As long as load times aren't faster than PS2 FDS (the fastest console version) you should be fine. I'd recommend using an emu that allows you to do the disc eject stuff, as it saves ~1 min in 100%, ~4 mins in All Levels, and ~12 mins in Any%.

RoHiSakk and Sky both run on emu, so they will know more than I do.

After timing everything out, it turns out that getting the letters in Spin Dizzy as opposed to Barrel Blast is slower by about 15 seconds or so, so the Any% route will remain the same for that portion of the game. However, the early game reroute I suggested saves roughly 1:15 on average (if done perfectly, maybe close to 1:30), so runs should start incorporating it immediately.

Also, thanks to the new melon door skip in Spin Dizzy that Sky found a few days ago, it might be faster to get letters in Spin Dizzy as opposed to Barrel Blast, which is something I also have to time out.

In the current Any% route, we do the following:

1. Collect the key, friend, and letters in Manic Mines and activate level skip
2. Skip Space Race
3. Collect the key, friend, and letters in Far Out and activate level skip
4. Clip through the wall and skip Perilous Pipes

I have yet to time this out - I came up with it while driving to school this morning - but I believe it will be faster if we do the following:

1. Collect the key and friend in Manic Mines and exit level once we have freed the friend
2. Collect the letters in Space Race and activate level skip
3. Collect the key and friend in Far Out and exit level once we have freed the friend
4. Clip through the wall and skip Perilous Pipes

Although this would involve us both completing and collecting the letters in Space Race, we will not have to collect the letters in Manic Mines or Far Out. We will also not have to go all the way to the ends of these levels and complete them - we can simply exit once we have freed the friends. Realistically I think this route could save 30-40 seconds - 1 minute at the absolute most - but I still have to time this stuff out, which I will do in the next few days. Thoughts?

I do believe that video proof should be required for a run to be verified, regardless of how fast/slow it is and where it falls amongst other times. I feel that it is not too much to ask of a person to record their gameplay, whether it be via a capture card, webcam, cell phone camera, etc. However, I think the times already present on the leaderboards without videos should stay. By virtue of being on the leaderboards in the first place, one or more of the mods decided/agreed that these runs were legitimate and deserved a place on the leaderboards. If they were believed to be not legit, they would never have made it there in the first place. By deciding to remove them, you are saying that you no longer believe any of the runs without video are legitimate, which I think is unfair to those people. While I do believe that removing the non-video runs would motivate those affected who truly care to improve their runs and have video evidence to show for it, I think those runs should stay. Those who care enough about their times/runs will want to improve them and prove that they did so regardless.

I basically do that, but I get the letters in Barrel Blast and carry the level skip through Spin Dizzy. I think getting the letters is faster in Barrel Blast, plus you can just exit Spin Dizzy once you free the friend without having to complete the level, which also saves time.