I'M IN

This is hilarious because I was trying to launch the game from an A: drive not too long ago, and was bewildered as to why it wouldn't work. I'm not old enough to remember that A: and B: were often floppy drives.

Thanks for your hard work.

Haven't noticed these posted anywhere. Use them to your leisure - should be everything you need for Classic% but if any are missing/needed, let me know

http://kzfrew.com/files/GTA-V-Icons.rar (116 KB)

I still think "No Clerk Skip" is functionally better as a category name. If I'm in the minority on that, I'll accept whatever the community decides.

I agree. I was wrong to advocate for ACE.

Yeah, this the worst possible time for dissonance to arise again.

I've posted this in the other thread, but here's my viewpoint: I can't explain "stack script underflow." I don't know what that means and I shouldn't have to research software engineering concepts to be able to explain it. All I can say is "no SSU bans the warp to the end of the game" but that doesn't explain "SSU" itself, just the category's purpose for existing.

So, what's the solution? Justifying a buzzword / ignoramus approach to give it another acronym that doesn't fit the exact definition (ACE)? I accept that is an incorrect solution.

"No Clerk Skip" is the best option, hands down. It's accessible, and bans the warp. Yeah, I know, we can do this glitch with chopper checkpoint, but since the setup to warp to KYFC using that method is 15 hours... I don't think it's relevant. If someone wants to do it, fine. Let them sit on the leaderboard with a 15h time. Mhmd_FVC is on Ingame 100% NG+ with a 6 hour time, so what's the difference?

[quote=anti]it seems to be the opposite and people are turned off by ACE because the name doesn't suit[/quote]

Not the case, in my mind. Most people seem comfortable with using "ACE" as a way to distinguish the two any% categories. Those with technical knowledge are not comfortable with using the term (rightfully so), but I don't think it's presently a barrier to entry.

Neither ACE or SSU offer enough information in their presented state to give any elucidation.

I'm not arguing for ACE or against SSU, I'm arguing against an acronym; it changes nothing at all.

B

I accept the argument from the technical perspective that ACE is not a technically exact label, and SSU is more proper, but changing the acronym... doesn't change anything. At all. Not a bit. Replacing one acronym with another does us no good and sets us back, even. The dissonance just continues.

If we're going to change the name? Make it a name, and not another damned acronym.

"No Clerk Skip" is acceptable, in this case. Yes, I know, this doesn't ban the setup with the chopper checkpoint mission; but if someone wants to do the fifteen hour setup to do it that way, might as well let them.

As long as we preserve a leaderboard that allows new players to rise high in the ranks without having to grind KYFC warp, I'm fine with whatever happens. Most people's interest is piqued for the novelty, but that's where it stops. When someone comes to the GTA speedrunning community, they want to engage in classic GTA gameplay in a speedy fashion.

That's not to say that the KYFC warp is a bad thing. It's always been there, we just didn't know about it. We should always be furthering our knowledge of our speedgame, because it's not like the old categories cease to exist - generally speaking.

@S. to me, the difference is that ACE is already used, and examples of it can be found throughout the speedrunning community (SMW credits warp, Castlevania SotN's inventory abuse, Zelda 1's filename abuse). With SSU, it'd be an exclusive term to Vice City and I think, generally speaking, it's a good idea to keep things consistent with the greater speedrun community. Yes, a lot of people are unsure of what ACE is, but you said it yourself - every hobby has its jargon, including us - Any% is a good example.

It's possible I could be overemphasizing my feelings on this. For me, I'm not exactly the most intelligent person around. With "script stack underflow" I don't know what we're saying, it's just words to me. I get that a "stack underflow" is when something is called from a stack but the stack is empty. I'm unsure on what a stack is; a bunch of similar elements, I guess? So a script is called from a stack but the stack is empty. But what script are we calling? I don't know any of this, and of course Google is your friend, but Google can't help me with comprehension.

I just want to play the game, I don't want to try and wrap my head around abstract coding concepts. If someone asks what ACE is, I can at least point them to digestible, speedrun-related content to help them understand it. If someone asks what SSU is, I can't explain it beyond "no warp to the end of the game" without pointing them to software engineering articles, and that's what I don't want to have to do to help someone understand a speedrun term.

Obviously with the more technical sides of speedrunning you can't avoid software engineering concepts (pannenkoek) but this is something that curious parties are able to explore if it so pleases them. It's different when a casual viewer just wants to understand what we mean.

Lastly: I've just emailed GDQ asking to change the category name of my run to Any% No ACE, so even if people decide that the name needs to change (it doesn't seem like the case, but if so) I'm not going to ask GDQ to change it for a third time.

In lieu of what Joe has said, I find being purist about categories to be a mindset that completely misses the mark of what speedrunning is all about: having fun. If banning certain aspects of the game makes a speedrun more fun or interesting, that is something that should be celebrated instead of chastised.

ACE is a term that's already used at large by the speedrun and TAS communities, though.

@S. - I've grown fatigued of this discussion because we're all up in arms about the category split and/or name, meanwhile no one is actually running either category. It feels like an echo chamber of arguments for no particular reason. The silver lining is that No ACE has seen activity recently, perhaps in part thanks to the leaderboard split.

1. No ACE is a functional name and no change is necessary.

2. "stack underflow" is a software engineering term. "ACE" is a speedrunning term. Using "stack underflow" is a really great way to make our community look anal retentive and inaccessible.

3. Splitting the leaderboards is an excellent choice and should not be undone. "But it's arbitrary!" Arbitrary categories exist because they're fun and fun is the entire reason speedrunning exists in the first place.

4. Why are we still talking about this? It's really quite ridiculous at this point. Further change is unnecessary and would continue to confuse casual and frequent viewers alike.

5. Warpless was a bad name, and I apologize for my advocacy of it. In that regard: No ACE is functional, concise, and uses jargon that is often found in the speedrunning and TAS communities.

If we're going to do January, try to avoid conflicting with GDQ.

February is potentially a bad month for my availability.

If there's something I can assist with, please contact me on discord KZ_Frew#9190. I can't promise I can help with everything, but GTAM needs to live on, so I'll try.

During EOTL 2 (triggered by GT skip), I got stuck in this Balla after leaving the interior and falling through blue hell.

I can change weapons and turn CJ, but nothing else. No attack, movement, crouch, etc.

Also, after the last wave of Ballas during The Green Sabre, this happened. Working theory is that the car had a double explosion and it killed me. Warning, clip is loud.

Gotta agree with what's been said, autosplitting the enter/exit is cheating. Then, I wouldn't need to worry about starting my timer or even looking at reference points. All of that is taken care of when the value changes. Manually timing it is fine, though.

Can you elaborate on item 6, please? Why "start rampage" and "pick up rampage"?

Do we know of the exact locations to force de/spawn of hardware store clerk? If not, how can we find this information?

Can we dupe and complete something besides The Party? Driving to the pier and back constantly seems like it'd take a while.

Nothing in the way of speedgaming, guywith.

Text from Powdinet to explain the glitch:

"With 66 threads active, spawn a hardware store shopkeeper, despawn him, spawn him again exactly 53636 milliseconds later, then buy Hyman Condo and start Vigilante during that cutscene during the garage part, then cancel Vigilante and it warps you to KYFC"

The millisecond perfect execution makes this kind of impossible to perform in a run.

Tested vigi method on JP, works.