SwedenI don't have a submitted time on the leaderboard but I will submit my 9:52 (easy) and give my 2 cents.
Since (ironically) difficult at the moment has the fastest time (mostly because difficult has been main category and people haven't played easy as much even though it's faster) I consider that the "main" world record. I do however support that easy should be considered the main category so by the time someone push down the time below 9:19 I would consider it the "main" world record.
So my vote would be yay
I did not write the previous pastebin with the intention of calling any specific people out. The thing I want up for discussion is the subject of how to treat runs being made offline and since Jackal was the game that brought it to my attention and since I followed that community for a while it was only natural for it to be the triggering factor for me. Specially since the circumstances made it easy to bring up my argument-points where I argued about being absent for a long time from a game you hold WR in and then returning to bring it back/defend it. I was unaware that the SMB community does the same with their leaderboard but just because a game with such a big community does it doesn't change my viewpoint in it at all.
I could, and probably should, have talked to all the moderators on the Jackal-board on how they came to the conclusion etc. etc. but the sole purpose of my previous pastebin was still to get a discussion going about this topic in GENERAL. I might also add that about the things I wrote about people complaining about the chinese-submissions being TAS most of the people do not even run the game themselves so it should not been read as targeting particular runners of the game even if it might have looked that way. To anyone who feels they have been wrongfully accused or offended I give my sincere apology, because that was never the intention.
From what I've read in comments/reactions on other places most people seems to be focusing on the actual subject of offline runs, which I'm happy for, so let's please keep it that way and not start some kind of personal badgering.
The argument "smb1 does it" feels like an easy excuse of dodging the blame, or criticism if you will. I did not have knowledge of the SMB1 rules prior to this but it doesn't change my views.
So where do we draw the line to call a run legit? Full-room streaming where the entire setup and runner can be seen on cam and with live people watching in chat to ensure the runner interacts with live-posts and making the correct facial expressions to things happening in the run itself? SMB-rules only states "streaming" is required, but does it have to be with microphone etc?
I could agree with things like showing inputs and such when playing on emulator but that's another discussion.
I did a pastebin about this and tweeted it but I should post it here too. I disapprove of this rule. I copy-paste my pastebin here:
The background about this is about the new rules for speedrunning Jackal. WR attempts must now be streamed to verify the authenticacy. My intention is not to start any fighting about this or call people out. But I think a serious discussion about this is due since it's not uncommon with submissions from chinese players on multiple boards and we could soon see a more spreading change of rules that I think should be discussed. I've started to be a bit upset in twitch-chats where people sometimes straight out and sometimes covered in silkgloves call out the chinese runners to be frauds, so I want this off my chest and at the same time start a discussion about it.
I remember some time back when Toad had not began to run this game yet. There were talk already then about the Chinese runs as "TAS-runs" since no other player were near those times at the time (when the record was 7:59 IIRC). That certain tricks in the runs were "impossible" to do RTA and whatnot. I heard it multiple times in different chats. It was later proven by Toad that the previous non-chinese runners of Jackal at the time simply wasn't good enough, or hadn't researched the game enough. Not trying to fire shots at previous runners but Toad only needed a few days to do a 7:51 and is now down to 7:44 which ofcourse theoretically should've been possible before too when sub 8 was "impossible" RTA.
Now many people found it suspicious that the chinese guys started submitting faster times again. But why? There been occasions where I have gotten WRs but since I at the time ran out of competition stopped to improve them but when I got guys sniffing my back I started the hardgrind again. Perfect examples are Yume Penguin where I stood on a high 9:56 for a long time, then Cartina picked it up again and got really close so I started playing again and got it down to a 9:54 quick. Same with Gremlins 2. I stopped at 7:49 before Big20 but then a lot of good players started it up so I quickly improved to 7:44. Then Riche started to hardgrind and we had a fierce battle all the way down to my 7:32. I would never had done what I had to do if it wasn't for the competition and why would it be any different from the chinese runners?
Or does anyone have proof of their runs being "fishy"?
Toad is an awesome runner who I have an enormous respect for, both in his skill as a speedrunner and on a personal note when we have talked, but it seems to me like some people thinks he's unbeatable. Hell, people thought I was unbeatable in Ducktales (I almost did myself) until garadas showed up. I think we all need to get down from our high horses sometimes. There are 1.5 billion people in China, the scene is growing and there are obviously some of them who are bound to be REALLY good at NES games even if they are "unknown" to us in the west.
The chinese must use proxies/VPNs etc to even access western websites and it's a big hassle for them to stream to twitch for instance. I'm not even sure we can access their streamsites and the quality is often so bad so it would be impossible to verify on that account anyway. What would stop someone from streaming a pre-recorded video in the middle of attempts? This particular rule just feels like an attempt to close off the chinese runners from stealing the western record.
If a run somehow is proven to be fraud. Using double-inputs only possible on keyboards and such they should ofcourse be denied, or placed in a different category. But disqualifying offline runs that have videoproof. I don't approve. My standpoint is innocent until proven guilty.
Give me your thoughts about this guys, and keep the discussion on a good level!
Good luck on pushing the game down by the way, and feel free to contact me on my twitch or twitter if you have questions.
Not sure I understand where you get the "3:59" from though since it's clearly a 4:08. Timer starts when you gain charactercontrol (at 0.09 in the video) and ends when you exit the final screen after the boss at 4:18. Seems right to me.
It's very much dependent on what game you run and from what console. Some games for Dreamcast had 60Hz option even on PAL and I think all Gamecube-games had as well. Before that there were huge differences and as already mentioned different physics due to the programmers trying to optimise the experience.
For retroconsoles in particular running games on region they were not meant to is generally a bad idea.
Just a little update. After some other speedrunning-projects I'm no putting full focus on my ESA submissions and started playing all games on stream again.
Batman has been given a few days of work this week because of both ESA and todays "pass the torch" NES relay race. My 4 last completed runs yesterday were 10.22, 10.21, 10.17 and 10.18. Consistency is there alright.
Chip n Dale has also been derusted. I practiced and did races with Krasyrasmus yesterday and did 10:07 st best which is less then 10 seconds of WR so I'm confident there too.
Ducktales never needs any real derust Since I played it so much. I can whip out sub 7.15 runs given only a fee attempts most of the time.
Gremlins 2 is extremely RNG heavy and tough and I have had a break from it after I grinded down the WR to 7:32 some time ago. Yesterday I did a no reset derust and ended up with a 8.1x time so given some work I'll be able to do sub 8 consistent again.
Finally Yume Penguin. Quirky and fun and I started derust on this as well yesterday. After a few practiceruns I did a 10:14 without breaking too much sweat and I'm confident I will be able to pull off low 10s or even lower given some more practice.
Just wanted to share what I'm up to so you know I'm serious about my submissions.
I also missed availability :( I'll most likely will be available the whole marathon. Depending on if my submissions get accepted I'll adapt to that in any case.
And I also apologise but I have a late edit to submission. I submitted Chip n Dale as a race between Nudua and myself but last day of submissions Krazyrasmus also wanted to join (which is fine by me). So he and Nudua submitted it as a 3-way race while my earlier submission still stated 2-way race. I just want to clarify I'm fine with Krazyrasmus racing along!
@Riekelt yeah I know I already stated availability. I just remembered that I maybe have to drive the kids to/from school and wanted to clarify so I don't get have maximum bad luck and get scheduled right rhen. I should be pretty flexible any time during whole weekend except for those times stated above. Though evenings still preferred :)
I'm available anytime except Friday morning (taking kids to school 8:30) or when picking them up 13:30. Swedish time. What is it. GMT?
Game Name: Ducktales System: NES Category: Any% Easy Gameplay Estimate: 9 minutes Ending/Bonus Estimate: nah Possible Donation Incentives: can't think of any Sample run video:
Description: Well known game with lots of nostalgia for lots of people. Great music overall. I'm submitting easy for safety-purposes on backup-strats + you don't need any health-pickups if things go bad. Not talking too much in WR samplevideo, was recorded offline. No run should go over 7:30 but took missed heli-skip in account when doing time-estimate.
Availability: Evenings preferred but not required since I'm on parental leave and should be able to adjust schedule.
Game Name: Chip n Dale System: NES Category: any% Gameplay Estimate: 12 minutes Ending/Bonus Estimate: nah Possible Donation Incentives: Characterselection. Chip or Dale Sample run video:
Description: Another well known Disney/Capcom game. It's quick, has great music and overall a fun run. Even with lots of mistakes the run should not go over 11 minutes but put 12 for safety.
Availability: Evenings preferred but not required since I'm on parental leave and should be able to adjust schedule.
Game Name: Batman System: NES Category: Any% Gameplay Estimate: 13 minutes Ending/Bonus Estimate: nopp Possible Donation Incentives: nah Sample run video:
Description: Another well known game with awesome music. Was just featured in a superhype race at AQDQ which I unfortunately could not attend. I have a 10:12 that is obviously faster then my sample-video but I have more commentary in the 10:13 so I thought I'd might as well submit that. If Dxtr, Riche and Badbrakes are up for it I'll not mind a race here either.
Availability: Evenings preferred but not required since I'm on parental leave and should be able to adjust schedule.
Game Name: Kung Fu System: NES Category: any% Gameplay Estimate: 5 minutes Ending/Bonus Estimate: nah Possible Donation Incentives: nopp Sample run video:
Description: Kung Fu is another NES classic from the early years of the console. A very fast run and with some safestrats which only costs a few seconds sub 3:50 is more or less guaranteed every run.
Availability: Evenings preferred but not required since I'm on parental leave and should be able to adjust schedule.
Game Name: Gremlins 2 System: NES Category: any% Gameplay Estimate: 12 minutes Ending/Bonus Estimate: nah Possible Donation Incentives: nopp Sample run video:
Description: Sadly this game is somewhat underrepresented. It has great gameplay and some of the most awesome tracks in any NES game, as always when Sunsoft is behind the wheel. It has LOTS of RNG and times that are close to PB:s are not marathon-guaranteed but even with mistakes the run should not take more then 10 minutes, but adding some extra.
Availability: Evenings preferred but not required since I'm on parental leave and should be able to adjust schedule.
The essence of speedrunning is somewhat to finish the games as quick as possible so the runs with glitches are often the most popular. Though as Bamz0rs say, if you prefer to run it without glitches that's ok.
If you pick a game where you can save anywhere you want I suggest that you save right before hard parts and play it over again and again since places like that most likely are where you can save the most time. Practice hard bossfights so you can manage with low health since many games require you to take damage instead of avoiding enemies at certain points to go faster.
Study how people already running the game do certain things and copy the good stuff and if you find some quicker way or feel more comfortable with some other don't be afraid to try different things. Depending on game it can be multiple ways to do things quick and it's a matter of preference which way feels right for you.
Most of all. Have fun. Don't pick a game you don't enjoy playing since you're gonna spend a lot of time with it if you're going serious.
Check the resources page here on speedrun.com. I use OBS for streaming and livesplit as timer. Obs probably needs a tutorial to set up correctly but you can Google it easy.
Oh, and welcome!
Thnx bamz0rs. 1 second away now. As soon as I get it I'll probably not touch the game in quite some time.
Managed to improve 5 seconds (will submit the run a bit later this evening) so WR is only 5 seconds away, but I'm starting to get a bit tired of the game so gonna pick something else up for variation (perhaps Ducktales 2, haha).
Thank you Svenne! =)
Thank you decipher. I really like the speedrun community. Tips and tricks are never far away.
Managed to grab tied 3rd place on Ducktales difficult Any% so I'm off to a good start. The WR is not as far out of reach as I thought a few days ago.
Thinking of what I should run next. Batman or Mega Man are a couple of top candidates.
