More Accurate Platform Distinctions for Desktop versions of Games
8 months ago
Michigan, USA
LiftedStarfish
He/Him, She/Her, They/Them
8 months ago

Currently, the platforms are not listed adequately for PC. Currently, there is not Windows platform, which means that if a community decides that it needs to distinguish between desktop operating systems for their category, then they must use PC to represent Windows. This means that, between communities, the PC tag is not being used consistently.

For Linux, there is also no distinction between Linux native, Linux Proton, and Linux Wine, when some games have very measurable differences when running them natively, vs. through Proton or Wine.

I think that SRC should add the following categories:

  • Linux Native
  • Linux Proton
  • Linux Wine
  • Windows
happycamper_ 喜欢这个
Canada

If there is a particular game or games that you know this to be true for, the moderators of those games can create a support ticket to request new platforms (there isn't a support ticket option specifically for that but I guess I would do "Change an existing game" -> "Other" and then explain why the breakdown is needed). The Linux stuff sounds good on paper but unless a specific game actually needs to distinguish those then there's not much point in adding new stuff that probably won't be used. I'm not personally aware of any games where Linux vs Proton/Wine has significant differences relevant to speedrunning, although that might just be because very few people speedrun on Linux in the first place.

As for Windows, you're not wrong, but realistically I don't think any existing game is going to bother going back to swap from PC to Windows (you'd have to manually modify the platform for every run to do this), and new games would probably still just follow the existing convention even if there's a technically more correct option (also I imagine a lot of the games that list "PC/Mac/Linux" just started as "PC" and only distinguished when differences were discovered, which can happen much later). It's not ideal, but you can figure out what it means from context, so it's good enough IMO.

happycamper_ 喜欢这个
Austria

Interesting topic as I might also have a case. But I'm not done with analysis on my case yet and would not care to distinguish (yet) as we only have 4 runners in total.

My thoughts on the topic: I don't think there are many runs / categories yet where it really matters. Linux gaming got a big push with the Steam Deck, but i'm not so sure about Linux speedrunning. I would not differentiate Proton & WINE as their function is basically the same. So I'd at max add "Linux WINE/Proton". The community will find out eventually under which version the game runs most optimal (if they care). And if you argue about performance differences between Proton & Wine: Technically you'd need to keep track of Proton/Wine versions. As performance also depends greatly on the version. Also on some versions it might not be possible to play the game (even newer ones). Same for Windows releases actually (compatibility mode is far from perfect to play older games). A Windows 98 native game plays runs different under Windows 7 with compatibility. I haven't seen a leaderboard keep track of that yet.

I think it makes sense to rename PC to Windows so that it is clear what is meant with that. Moderators interpret it quite differently. Technically nowadays you can submit a game with console "PC" and the emulator flag to mark as Wine/Proton. I'd be fine with that style of marking for now.

I'm interested for @LiftedStarfish 's examples.

Michigan, USA
LiftedStarfish
He/Him, She/Her, They/Them
8 months ago

For the separation of Windows and PC tags, I would suggest looking at the biggest speedrun communities, and seeing how they use it: If they use PC to mean Windows, rename PC to Windows and create a new PC tag. If they use it to mean Personal Computer, regardless of operating system, then it should be left alone, and a new Windows tag should be added.

As for Linux distinctions, there are multiple instances of games performing/behaving differently between native and Proton versions of the game, since Proton is essentially running the Windows version of the game. Not distinguishing between Proton and Wine makes sense because Proton is just a fork of Wine more specialized for video games.

Canada

I would suggest looking at the biggest speedrun communities, and seeing how they use it

It changes depending on context, some games need to distinguish different operating systems, many do not. Renaming the PC tag would be a bad idea because then it would force every leaderboard to distinguish OS's when in a significant amount of cases there are no differences, or the differences are not relevant. If anything was to be done then I would say to add the Windows tag, but as I mentioned I doubt anyone would put in the manual effort to use it. If we were recreating the platform system from scratch then this would definitely be a good thing to keep in mind so that things don't change with context, but given the established conventions I think it's okay to leave things as is.

there are multiple instances of games performing/behaving differently between native and Proton versions of the game

Do you have any specific examples that are relevant to speedrunning? Performance differences alone are generally not important. If so, please direct your concerns to the moderators of the games in question so they can request new platforms to be added. As I said before, unless someone actually needs to be able to distinguish those there's no need to clutter the platform list with it. I also agree with happycamper's assessment that marking Wine/Proton runs as "PC [EMU]" is appropriate (I know, I know... "wine is not an emulator", but in this context the difference between an emulator and a compatibility layer is not important).

happycamper_ 喜欢这个
Canada

This is what I suggested earlier:

"Change an existing game" -> "Other" and then explain why the breakdown is needed

I assume that would yield a faster result than a generic feedback request. An official way to request it would certainly be ideal. In any case my point was less about the actual method and more about someone with an actual need for the platform distinction to request it rather than, to put it bluntly, a random new user with a random forum post with no concrete examples of it actually being needed.

编辑者 作者 8 months ago