The "one input device" is a bit ambiguous admittedly, as it could technically mean either "one input device at a time" or "only one input device throughout the run".

However since every single any% run on the board uses a mouse to hit ok on the menu I don't think anyone would interpret that as the latter. I don't think anyone looks at that part and thinks that they wouldn't be allowed to start their run with one controller and switch to another if said controller dies. (cough) I don't think there is a great way to reword that if you wanted to, as "one input device at a time." could then also mean "I can use player 2 if I only control one of them at a time!" and having to add more and more descriptors on a simple rule panel on a technicality is not ideal.

Also, let me clarify that changing "glitchless" to "no major glitches" would be in name only. The category would stay the exact same otherwise, and the name change would just be so the laymen would understand that there may be some minor exploits in the run. (Such as wallhopping or the arena skip.)

For some reason bubbles can trigger area transition save points and olmec save points, but not checkpoint stands. Abusing this mechanic can allow you to skip the Isle cut-scene, as shown in the video. Nothing else has been found with this yet but its possible that something could come up.

Showed this to the glitchless runners, and after some discussion it seems like this should be disallowed from solo glitchless since it uses multiple players in a solo category.

The rules already ban this from solo categories. ("one input device") However I thought it'd be worthwhile to post this here to hear people's opinions on this exploit in regards to Co-Op, and to document the exploit somewhere more visible.

I would also like to hear people's opinions on changing the name of "Glitchless" to "No Major Glitches", since the current glitchless category abuses the arena skip exploit in Serpent Temple.

Oh, also, this mechanic hasn't been tested on any arenas besides Jade Temple / Serpent Temple and a couple of Los Manglares arenas, so it could be possible that there would be one or two other arenas skipped with said mechanic in a restricted any% run.

Skipping arena(s) with Dashing Derp Derp is an unintentional mechanic that skips content, (Abusing how transitions from room to room doesn't fully check mid-movement events.) by laymen speedrunning definitions of glitchless I believe that this would be classified as one.

However, I believe it is realistic for players to come across and use this mechanic in blind play, thus it's still in the spirit of a "Blind-Play Based Route".

I would be leaning on the side of allowing this trick, assuming that runners believe that this stays in the spirit of thier runs of course. However, I would probably change the name of the category slightly so people don't get confused if they see the trick in action. Granted, people could technically still get confused seeing wallhopping, but wallhopping can't really skip any content in this game.

As an aside, any arenas skipped via normal gameplay mechanics is, obviously, not a glitch.

I would like to hear Weskurrr, Theblacktastic, and Boney's opinions on this before making a decision.

I thought about when it's optimal to do the menu glitch on each boss and this is what I came up with:

Run n Gun - End Veggies - Whenever Convienent (If you missed it at the beginning you'll probably just reset anyways) Frogs - During the Slot Machine | Beginning Slime - Phase Transition Flower - First Attack of Last Phase / Machine Gun Seeds Beppi - As Late as Possible Bon Bon - Whenever Convienent Dragon - Whenever Convienent / After Phase Skip Bee - After Police Bee (Assuming 28-30 second fight) | Between Phase 2 and 3 (Assuming otherwise) Sally - Phase 3 | Beginning Werner - Phase 2 Brutus - Phase Transition Ghost Train - Final Phase Transition / Skeleton (If you end up in the scenario where you have to take damage to 1 cycle) King Dice - Ending

Fights Menu'd Early in a "Speedrun" = 06/19

Worst case scenario, you still do 13 Fights without the menu up for a majority of the fight, so I don't think this would hurt the run "aesthetically" much. If there's a good point to do it earlier for races that I missed feel free to point it out, keep in mind that some earlier points can cause a significant time loss from having to focus on dodging more. (Werner Werman's Phase 1 and Brutus' OctoGuns make doing these earlier questionable, even in a race.)

I think deathless as a category requirement would be unnecessary since an optimal co-op run would probably be deathless in the first place. Maybe "Co-op no Bubble Key" instead since "Co-op no Bubble" is a bit of an oxymoron?

I agree that, at the very least, 2 controller categories should be put on the leaderboards. Fair warning though that if your interested in any% 2 controller runs that a trick called bubble clipping, (reference: ) changes how that run goes majorly. (reference: ) Nobody has routed bubble clipping for 100% and it shouldn't destroy the route as much. If you want to do 2 player co-op without the bubble clipping then we'll have to come up with a good category name. (Final reference for the current best 100% co-op run: ) I'll make sure to bug Bagel_Thief about this since you brought it up.