Hi!

I just submitted a run using a bunch of glitches, and I think it would be a good idea to have a community talk about the rules. :)

First of all, I suggest the rules should be updated to include an explanation for when you should start the timer. I realized I started mine earlier than everybody else, when I pressed "Start Game" while the other runs appears to start when they pick their character class. I'm fine with the character class being the timer start, but it should be documented in the rules.

For the glitches, there are a whole bunch you can do. Here is a shorthand list of things you can do with glitches:

1. Repick your class four times to combo them together and get all 4 starting skills.

2. Fast-travel to different rooms without walking.

3. Repeat Mendo's Ring quest for infinite skill points.

4. Clear battles without fighting the enemy.

5. Morph an enemy into another enemy for an easier/harder battle.

6. Jump straight to the credit screen after dying

My overall opinion is that glitches that allow you to skip or otherwise change battles should be disallowed (glitch 4, 5, and 6) because you have essentially not 100%'ed the game if you haven't actually fought. To my mind 100% means winning every battle in the game, so if you have simply skipped past them you haven't actually done them. There is also the practical aspect that there isn't much of a speedrun left if you can just start and prematurely skip past all 35 battles in the game, there is not really any gameplay left at that point.

I would argue that 1, 2 and 3 should be allowed for the normal 100% category, and if there is demand, a separate "Glitchless" category should be made. That's the standard setup for most games on speedrun.com and I think Sinjid should follow this norm.

I also noticed that there is no any% category, but there are some youtube videos of people doing any% runs, so maybe we should add this category?

Hope to see more interest in this game!

I agree the rules should be clearer regarding starting time, and I also think the logical starting point is picking the class.

I think my stance on the use of glitches depends on their nature. How are they done? From Googleing, many of these seem like they can be attributed to the Flash engine, which I would consider off limits. I'm using Flashpoint Infinity, and can't seem to replicate them though.

Given that all the existing runs, as well as the one I'm working on, is glitchless, this category should probably made a glitchless category in any case - and a new category could possible be made with glitches allowed if people are into that.

I think my stance on the use of glitches depends on their nature. How are they done? From Googleing, many of these seem like they can be attributed to the Flash engine, which I would consider off limits. I'm using Flashpoint Infinity, and can't seem to replicate them though.

I am using Adobe Flash Player 32, the "official" (if no longer supported with patches) way of playing flash games. I tried downloading Flashpoint Infinity and running Sinjid, but that also just opened the game in Adobe Flash Player 32 on my computer, not sure if that's the case for you as well. Either way, all of the glitches are done by pressing Ctrl + Enter, it's a hotkey that normally should be available on any flash platform. I remember doing it as a kid with a lot of flash games.

The infinite skillpoint glitch is doable entirely with ingame mechanics, you just click the "Restart the Game" button, die, and load.

Given that all the existing runs, as well as the one I'm working on, is glitchless, this category should probably made a glitchless category in any case - and a new category could possible be made with glitches allowed if people are into that.

That's reasonable, but I'd personally suggest that 100% and Any% allow glitches, while 100% Glitchless and Any% Glitchless do not allow glitches. It's the de-facto way to organize things on speedrun.com. It shouldn't be a destructive change, all the current records can be safely moved over to glitchless category without anybody losing their records :)

It also opens in Adobe Flash Player 32 for me using Flashpoint Infinity. The ctrl+enter method worked, I was just unaware of it. I did manage to do the infinite skillpoint glitch before, but I figured there was another way, as it is quite time consuming.

That's reasonable, but I'd personally suggest that 100% and Any% allow glitches, while 100% Glitchless and Any% Glitchless do not allow glitches.

That was my meaning aswell, so we are in agreement :)

It seems to me that the simple stipulation of 100% runs would be that all 35 portal enemies must be defeated? For glitched runs that would make 4, 5 and 6 on your list allowed but of little to no use. For any% it would be that simply level 20 human portal is defeated? In that case 4 and 5 might have some use, but seeing as you can't skip to a level per se, it will not make it trivial.

It seems to me that the simple stipulation of 100% runs would be that all 35 portal enemies must be defeated? For glitched runs that would make 4, 5 and 6 on your list allowed but of little to no use.

I see what you mean, by simply saying that "you have to legitimately defeat all 35 enemies" as part of the rules, you don't have to outright ban glitch 4, 5 and 6. They would possible to do, but useless to actually help you.

There are some exceptions though, as you hinted at yourself. In an Any% run you could use the glitches to get crazy items and exp from the Monster and Dark Rift portal. Another trick that can be used is entering the Training Portal and getting pretty fast exp from it by using some of these glitches, rather than training the classic way.

Maybe that's acceptable though, or even encouraged for the glitch categories? I honestly don't know.

Oh yeah I neglected to mention the other method, hit Ctrl F to fullscreen, then esc out, and you'll have a flash window menu available at the top of the game. under "Control" you can pick "Step Back" which is the opposite of Ctrl+Enter, which allows for fun glitches like picking multiple starting classes. I used it in my run to get the Energy Knife while playing the Warrior ;)

Oh yeah I neglected to mention the other method, hit Ctrl F to fullscreen, then esc out, and you'll have a flash window menu available at the top of the game.

I was wondering if there was a way to switch scene in the opposite direction! There is no shortcut for it though? This creates a question for what constitutes a defeat though. Can you go back/forward to another enemy to damage an easier opponent, and then go back for the killing blow on the original enemy? Or should the battles be entirely legitimate?

There are some exceptions though, as you hinted at yourself. In an Any% run you could use the glitches to get crazy items and exp from the Monster and Dark Rift portal. Another trick that can be used is entering the Training Portal and getting pretty fast exp from it by using some of these glitches, rather than training the classic way. Maybe that's acceptable though, or even encouraged for the glitch categories? I honestly don't know.

I think it should be allowed, in my mind that is the exact thing that a glitch category is all about. The training room could even have applications for the 100% category.

as wondering if there was a way to switch scene in the opposite direction! There is no shortcut for it though?

The shortcut is Ctrl + Left Arrow, but the arrow buttons are used by the game itself so it blocks the hotkey. It would have been possible if you moved with WASD instead, but such is life.

Can you go back/forward to another enemy to damage an easier opponent, and then go back for the killing blow on the original enemy? Or should the battles be entirely legitimate?

When you switch between foes they get fully healed. But a bigger problem is that if you switch to an easier opponent and kill it, you still count as having advanced the Portal by one victory. That's one of the glitches I vote against allowing as it trivializes the game, you can fight the easiest enemy 35 times in a row and win the game.

When you switch between foes they get fully healed.

So it does. I only tested it quickly and was fooled by the visuals of the healthbar. I also vote againt allowing substition defeats, so this makes it simpler as you will always have to battle the enemy you need to defeat.

I agree Glitchless can be its own category if people desire.

I am (as you can probably tell) not very active on speedrun.com. Let me know if either of you would like to be the moderator for this game and I can figure out how to transfer power to you.

I am okay with taking on the mantle, but as the newcommer I defer to SizoQ or somebody else who has been into this game for longer, I just started doing runs a week ago.

I would be happy to take over as moderator. I originally made this account to add the game, but by the time I was eligible to do so, and got around to getting it done, it had already been added.

I added SizoQ as super moderator. Rubicate, let me know if you want to mod as well so I can add you, or if you were just offering to mod in case no one else did.

We can start with just SizoQ, I'm sure he will do a great job.