United KingdomAnd thanks for coming into the stream also. I thought you were from here, but I couldn't 100% remember and didn't want to commit to it :-)
Not to mention I was having a bit of a bad beat with the game at the time.
At the moment though, I'm getting Spider Gran pinned 50% of the time, which helps massively.
Thank you for your kind words - I've fought the tree from the side and I seem (or at least I think) I get leg swiped more. But it might be more advantageous to do it from the side as the knock back (presuming you're a little late on the pause) might not be as substantial- You're 100% on the money with the timing though.
I actually think the game has a very basic 'parry' system in that if you attack, while being attacked, you won't take damage. I notice this with a lot of the skeletons in the 'Primitive Screw Head' section of the game.
Yep yep. - I saw both in other peoples videos and read the tips. - It's more of an issue that the tree is a battle of health attrition and my execution is pretty crap, so I'm taking more damage than would be ideal before getting there. Well, perhaps more accurately, I'm losing time picking and/or farming health to ensure I survive the tree and run to the cave.
It would just make it infinitely easier if there was a cheese strat on the tree. - If nothing else though, I'm getting somewhat consistent with pinning Spider Gran in the corner.
Yeah. I'm definitely learning. - My biggest obstacle so far is health. - Hard to ignore any health pick-ups in case things go south. Still though, the more I learn and the more used to the ahem "controls" I get, the better I'll do.
Not seeing a smart way to do the tree through beyond battle of attrition tactics. A smarter kill on him would save me masses of time in NOT having to get health, but I'm not sure that exists.
I actually beat this game once upon a time many years ago on PC, returning to it now though I have rediscovered how both tough and unforgiving this title was!
Furthest I have gotten so far, in a relative speedrunning learning sense, is just past the tree. At this point all my health was gone and some unfortunate spawns finished Ashley off.
Any general survivability tips would be much appreciated.
Hello all.
Having coordinated with Pazuzu_, you may notice we now have three categories for this game. Each have their own individual rules but also overarching rules which apply to all three categories. Should anyone be planning to start running this game, I strongly advice you check the rules first (to prevent any complications later).
Secondly, I strongly advise, regardless of where you obtain your copy of Blade Runner, that you manually download and install ScummVM and play the game from that rather than any pre-installed versions. - The default ScummVM installer for Blade Runner is, to my knowledge, version 0.2.0 which is VERY out of date. - This is, however, at your discretion.
In brief though the categories are as follows:
1 - Any% - No manual seed selection allowed - Original or 'Restored Content' versions both allowed
2 - Any 'Enhanced Edition' - This is strictly for the 2022 cough "enhanced" version of Blade Runner only
3 - Any SeedRunner - Manual Seed selection (predetermining/guaranteeing key RNG is allowed) - Original or 'Restored Content' versions both allowed
Again though, please see the overall speedrunning rules for Blade Runner as well as the individual category rules.
I always like to run a tight ship when it comes to rules, but occasionally that ship turns out to be the Titanic. So if there are any grey areas or confusing points, please don't hesitate to drop me or Pazuzu_ a DM.
In regard to the new 'SeedRunner' category, all information/downloads you require are below. Again though, if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask. - Please note though that at the time of writing only ScummVM 2.9.0 guarantees seed selection. 2.8.1 claims it can do it, but that's not entirely true.
ScummVM 2.9.0 (or latest version) download - This is the most recent ScummVM working build and can be updated on literally a daily basis - https://buildbot.scummvm.org/#/dailybuilds
ScummVM Update Reel for Blade Runner (lists all fixes in latest ScummVM version) No need to update ScummVM if there's nothing new here - https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commits/master/engines/bladerunner
Darkshoxx's amazing RNG seed selector - https://darkshoxx.github.io/BladeRunNG/
Helpful Links
ScummVM 2.9.0 (or latest version) download - This is the most recent ScummVM working build and can be updated on literally a daily basis - https://buildbot.scummvm.org/#/dailybuilds
ScummVM Update Reel for Blade Runner (lists all fixes in latest ScummVM version) No need to update ScummVM if there's nothing new here - https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commits/master/engines/bladerunner
Darkshoxx's amazing RNG seed selector - https://darkshoxx.github.io/BladeRunNG/
Major Speedrunning Breakthrough - Part 2 of 2
A SKIP WHICH MAY NOT BE A SKIP... - RESTORED CONTENT VERSION ONLY
As part of ScummVM 2.9.0, and playing specifically with the 'restored content version', you can get an exceptionally low burden of proof RNG with Izo. And by exceptionally low, I mean zero.
Before going any further though, please note again that this is exclusive to the Restored Content Version ONLY and, again, ONLY works on ScummVM 2.9.0. This does not work on the standard version of Blade Runner and will not work at all in older ScummVM releases. - For those who haven't played the 'restored content' version, it typically only adds audio files which were cut from the original. There is no tangible additional content. Anyway, back on point!
The pathing from Act 2 in this 'restored content' version is as follows - Go to Tyrell, get the Kingston box from the dome room, go to animoid row, speak to Izo, say cheese.
Yep, no shell casings, no grigorian, nothing. Literally ZERO evidence required. - You only need the Kingston Kitchen box just to get animoid row as a viable location. That's it.
In terms of time save though, I don't think this is too exciting. I've yet to confirm it, but it appears Izo emerging from his shop is set to a global timer which starts when you arrive in the location. - In basic terms, no matter what you do, Izo will NOT appear until you've been in the overall location for 30 seconds (ish).
The only real advantage with this route is that you can't lose time whereas you can clearly make some mistakes on the way to Earring woman, Bob, and then to Izo.
The adverse issue though is that you have to spend circa 12 seconds going into the dome at Tyrell to get the food box (rather than just getting the earring outside).
Overall, I think this 'skip' gives with the left hand and takes with the right.
MOVING FORWARD WITH THE SPEEDRUN CATEGORY
So based on all the above, and some side notes, I have a couple questions.
And to be 100% clear, the below are ALL PERTINENT to my recent submission of 19m 13s 090ms.
1 - Do we want a new category for ScummVM 2.9.0 based on the clear advantage of manually setting and locking optimal RNG?
2 - Do we want a new category due to the 'easier' route provided in the 'Restored Content' version?
3 - What is the official stance regarding the 'game options'? This most notably would appear to include the option to "Disable McCoy's quick stamina drain".
It would appear that the original rules were somewhat loose regarding #3, and in fact may not have been an issue at the time at all. It would, however, appear that #3 was utilised at least in the WR run.
As things are right now, we're potentially heading into a hornets nest of vagueness with the rules. In so far as I can see, these appear to be the options moving forward;
A) - Retain the current leader board as any% and NOT allow seed selection. Literally play the game, roll the dice, pray to the God/s of RNG - With that being said, it would be difficult to police/verify as people COULD just pick a good seed when 2.9.0 becomes standard and not mention it. Like it or not, Pandora's box has been opened.
B) Allow 2.9.0 in the current leaderboard. Allow fixed RNG seeds. But do not allow the use of the 'restored content version' and by proxy the No Evidence Izo glitch.
C) Create a new leaderboard for the 'restored content' version with an 'anything goes any%' policy
D) Retain the current leaderboard and make ScummVM 2.9.0 and RNG selection simply a declaration. This includes the Restored Content/No Evidence Izo. - We just carry on with the current leaderboard in a 'no holds barred', but similarly, 'please tell us if you've done anything unusual' Any% category.
Personally, I endorse B, C, or D. I think we all agree the RNG grind in this game is simply ridiculous and until we had the option to manually lock it down, it likely put many people off running this game. It is, without a doubt, soul eating to keep fighting something you may have lost within the first click. - I think that by allowing a fixed RNG, this could open the doors to a lot more interest in this game from the speedrunning community.
I'm more than happy to discuss this further and thank you for your time in reading this small novella.
A SKIP WHICH MAY NOT BE A SKIP... - RESTORED CONTENT VERSION ONLY
As part of ScummVM 2.9.0, and playing specifically with the 'restored content version', you can get an exceptionally low burden of proof RNG with Izo. And by exceptionally low, I mean zero.
Before going any further though, please note again that this is exclusive to the Restored Content Version ONLY and, again, ONLY works on ScummVM 2.9.0. This does not work on the standard version of Blade Runner and will not work at all in older ScummVM releases. - For those who haven't played the 'restored content' version, it typically only adds audio files which were cut from the original. There is no tangible additional content. Anyway, back on point!
The pathing from Act 2 in this 'restored content' version is as follows - Go to Tyrell, get the Kingston box from the dome room, go to animoid row, speak to Izo, say cheese.
Yep, no shell casings, no grigorian, nothing. Literally ZERO evidence required. - You only need the Kingston Kitchen box just to get animoid row as a viable location. That's it.
In terms of time save though, I don't think this is too exciting. I've yet to confirm it, but it appears Izo emerging from his shop is set to a global timer which triggers when you arrive in the location. I believe there is a minimum of 30-35 seconds before he will come outside of his gate. So, although I arrive at around the 5 minute 20 second point, in each run I've done using this system I've had to wait 15 seconds which, compared to the old route (via Bullet Bob) I don't think is any faster.
The only real advantage with this route is that you can't lose time whereas you can clearly make some mistakes on the way to Bob and then back to Izo.
MOVING FORWARD WITH THE SPEEDRUN CATEGORY
So based on all the above, and some side notes, I have a couple questions.
And to be 100% clear, the below are ALL PERTINENT to my recent submission of 19m 13s 090ms.
1 - Do we want a new category for ScummVM 2.9.0 based on the clear advantage of manually setting and locking optimal RNG?
2 - Do we want a new category due to the 'easier' route provided in the 'Restored Content' version?
3 - What is the official stance regarding the 'game options'. This most notably would appear to include the option to "Disable McCoy's quick stamina drain".
It would appear that the original rules were somewhat loose regarding #3, and in fact may not have been an issue at the time at all. It would, however, appear that #3 was utilised at least in the WR run.
As things are right now, we're potentially heading into a hornets nest of vagueness with the rules. In so far as I can see, these appear to be the options moving forward;
A) - Retain the current leader board as any% and NOT allow seed selection. Literally play the game, roll the dice, pray to the God/s of RNG - With that being said, it would be difficult to police/verify as people COULD just pick a good seed when 2.9.0 becomes standard and not mention it. Like it or not, Pandora's box has been opened.
B) Allow 2.9.0 in the current leaderboard, but do not allow the use of the 2.9.0 No Izo Evidence glitch as this is part of the 'restored content version'.
C) Create a new leaderboard for the 'restored content' version with an 'anything goes any%' policy
D) Retrain the current leaderboard and make ScummVM 2.9.0 and RNG selection simply a declaration. This includes the No Evidence Izo. - We just carry on with the current leaderboard in a 'no holds barred', but similarly, everything disclosed Any% category.
Personally, I endorse B, C, or D. I think we all agree the RNG grind in this game is simple ridiculous and until we had the option to manually lock it down, it likely put many people off running this game. - I think that by allowing a fixed RNG, this could open the doors to a lot more interest in this game from the speedrunning community.
I'm more than happy to discuss this further and thank you for your time in reading this small novella.
Hello old and new Blade Runner speedrunners.
I've been running the game for around 2-3 weeks now and I tend to go at things rather hard. As such, I have a LOT of new information appertaining to my most recent submissions. - I'll try and keep this as brief and concise as possible, but if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
SCUMMVM 2.9.0
Following the release of ScummVM 2.8.1 earlier this year, it was claimed that it was possible to manually select the RNG seed. As I'm sure we're all aware, Blade Runner is a horrific mess of RNG. Having spoken with ScummVM developer 'PraetorianWolfie', however, the update notes regarding seed selection was only a half truth.
Keeping things simple, although 2.8.1 would allow you to manually set a seed via the global settings, there were a number of potential conflicts within the game's menu system, as well as with the save files (including the mountain of autosaves you acquire), that could result in the manually set seed being overwritten into something random. I checked and was able to confirm this issue myself.
Put simply, this seed selection on 2.8.1 (the most current stable release of ScummVM at the time of writing) does not work.
With 2.9.0 currently in development though, 'PraetorianWolfie' confirmed that this issue had been fixed.
Yes, there is a means of manually selecting a seed and have it remain consistent throughout numerous attempts. - So, the doors were open to finding the optimal RNG seed! Something I think many of us who run/ran this game would consider the most frustrating issue!
FINDING THE SEED!
So, with ScummVM 2.9.0, the 'luck' could be mostly set. And by 'luck' what I mean is who is predetermined as a human/replicant when you start a new run.
The most obvious optimal luck route, as far as I could ascertain, was the following:
Izo - Replicant / Dektoka - Human / Lucy - Human / Gordo - Replicant / Luther/Lance - Human / Sadik - Replicant
This would allow Lucy/Dektora/Gordo pathing in act 3 which, again, I believe is the most optimal.
Speaking to my friend (and retro speedrunning legend) Darkshoxx - He has found a means of finding every single potential seed. - Better still, he actually made a GitHub page where you can play around with it!
Incredible work so clap clap for Darkshoxx.
Literally find your seed number (see above for what I think is optimal), set it in ScummVM 2.9.0 via Global Settings, and away you go. GUARANTEED rng.
https://darkshoxx.github.io/BladeRunNG/
TLDR - SEED #404 seemed a strong choice to me#
Oh, and presuming you want to check/confirm your RNG at any point in ScummVM 2.8.1 or 2.9.0, you can type 'cheat' in the debug menu (CTRL+ALT+D). This will reveal the human/replicant status of all important characters.
SEE PAGE 2 BELOW!!!
Thank you for pointing the error out. I honestly have no idea how it was miscategorised, but I suspect it may have gone all the way back to before I was actually a mod in this group.
I like games this like. They appeal to the orderly side of my brain. I run many games with a lot of RNG crap so it's nice to get to occasionally dip into something (mostly) ordered like this where any mistake is usually my own.
Typically my resets here are within the first 10 seconds with a bad initial plane landing. Compared to resetting 2-15 minutes into a run, that's quite pleasant :D
yes... that is... weird.
Aeihu hasn't been online in 11 months, so I'm guessing life happened. No worries though, not exactly a crazy community here. Well, crazy as in busy. We're a bit nuts for running this.
I submitted a ticket to take over the group and was accepted around 2 weeks ago.
I'd originally submitted my runs around 6 months ago and they had been sat in pending since. I presume the groups original MOD went inactive. They've since (apparently) abandoned the group entirely as even I did notice I was sole mod until you submitted this.
Hi all - Please try and include the IGT with any submission videos. IIRC it's displayed at the successful completion of each level. Just makes verification easier.
When Suck Up! was originally released I was not personally aware of any specific glitches or skips within the environment that could impact anything notable in regard to speedrunning. I did, quite literally, just map out what I thought was the most efficient route using the intended (most obvious) pathways.
Since that time, however, three fairly significant time-saving glitches have been discovered:
1 - The ability to clip through porches to knock on doors (saving time walking around them)
2 - The ability to clip through a wall in Mr. Boomer's house (making a more direct route to Sakura's house)
3 - The ability to jump over Karen's roof, coming from Elom's house (making a more direct route 'as the bat flies')
When the "Normal" category was created, this was solely in regard to it not allowing any glitched 'conversations' with the AI. In other words, interactions had to be, relatively speaking, 'as intended'. And in regard to the this category, it was only created because some very clever people found that there were ways to 'trick' the AI.
With that being said, however, the above skips have made me question the overall nature of 'Normal' vs 'Glitched' and specifically what definitions people may apply to those categories moving forward.
So, I've had to make a decision...
For the current patch version, and any future patch which does not fix or change any of the above, "Normal" will allow the above three skips and anything else subsequently discovered as long as it is nothing too crazy; Such as the ability to permanently fly as a bat, etc..
If this is an issue, I will happily rename the category to 'Normal% No Major Glitches" and create a new one "Normal% No Skips", but I'm going to leave the community to decide that as we have precious few runners and I wouldn't want to muddy the waters by making a whole new leader board nobody would participate in.
Around 2 months ago I attempted to tidy up the leader board to better comply with the updates Suck Up! received since its release 6 months ago.
To do this I did archive the original 0.2.11 submissions which, unfortunately, sent them to a metaphorical graveyard.
It was not ideal, but at the time I couldn't think of a better solution.
With that being said, I did regret losing the older records and talking with some of the Suck Up! speedrunning community, I have re-created those leaderboards and reinstated the records under their respective categories.
If I've made any errors, please let me know.
I should note too, an easy speedrunning trick is possible.
Firstly, from #19 - After you leave his house turn left and jump over his porch railing. - This gives you a neat line around the edge of #20 (Elom's) garden which avoids the police (which seem to congregate there quite heavily). - I'd recommend against turning into a bat, however, until you know you'll reach the door (Elom doesn't mind your nudity).
After #20 (Elom) if you follow the garages to the left, turn into a bat and jump onto #21 (Karen's) roof. You can literally run and jump over it to land right on her doorstep. - This only works as a bat, but it will easily save you 10-15 seconds (and there are 'clothes' just to the left of her door).
Sometimes, despite the strats, the AI can be very difficult, so consider this more of a generalised speedrunning strategy. There are definitely some inconsistent people in this game and you may want to experiment with finding your own methodologies.
