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Denmarkghuia9 years ago

I've noticed that the glitch counter carries over from game to game which could be the cause for prettz strange results. So if you first spend 1 minute at crash site, but then exit that run for any reason, then next time you start a run it will take 1 minute less to trigger the glitch (as long as you haven't restarted the game).

To test this:

  1. Restart Out There Somewhere to make sure everything is reset.
  2. Start a new game and wait in Crash Site for 2m40s.
  3. Exit before the glitch triggers (doesn't matter if you saved), but don't turn off your game.
  4. Start a new game, now the glitch will trigger almost immediately.

So if you run NG any% IGT broken then you should restart the game before every run, otherwise it would be NG+. I think this should be emphasized in the category description. Maybe we should also require that the vod includes the intro screen so we are sure people have actually restarted the game (I generally trust people, but might as well make it hard to cheat). Or if people want we can also change the category to NG+ I don't really have any preference either way.

The following is a NG+ any% IGT Broken I just did where I waited at Crash Site for 2m45s in a game before starting this run. Time is 3:02 (RTA) and that is with some bad execution.

PrettzL tycker om detta
Denmarkghuia9 years ago

I still don't understand the glitch, but a few observations and thoughts on it:

If I just wait in the starting area I always have to stay there for exactly 2m50s (so it triggers at 2m52s because I spend 2s in space). This is both with the old and updated Adobe AIR DLL, and I get the same result on my laptop as on my desktop.

It keeps track of how much time you spend in the starting area. I waited 2m40s, then left and came back and the glitch triggered after 10s.

If I go get the gun, then the total time I have to spend in the starting area is a little less about 2m46s. If I keep destroying the destructible blocks it seems to go down to about 2m40s.

My guess is that the smoke particles fill some kind of resource buffer, and when that is full loading of new levels fail (or maybe it overflows and overwrites something critical). Some other stuff seems to use the same buffer which would explain why going to the gun cuts down a little on the required time, but only smoke seems to realistically fill it quick enough to be of any use. When you destroy a destructible block it emits these small blue particles which I think is why that cuts down on time further.

I tried going back and forth between Crash Site and the next level very quickly in an attempt to fill the resource buffer faster by respawning the smoke and other particles. The game still made it to the glitch, but it took longer.

Rezoons and I seem to get the same behavior, but prettz gets different behavior which is odd. I would love to hear from other people that timed how long it took for them to trigger the glitch and if there's anything special about their setup (just stay in the starting area and note when the smoke goes out in your spaceship).

My setup is: Windowed Mode Windows 7, 64bit Updated Adobe AIR (same behavior with default Adobe AIR) CPU i7-4790K GPU GeForce GTX 970 Storage standard 7200RPM HDD (no SSD or Ramdisk) RAM 24GB DDR3

I got similar result on my Laptop: Lenovot ThinkPad Edge E440 Windowed Mode Windows 7, 64bit Updated Adobe AIR CPU i7-4702MQ GPU Intel HD 4600 (integrated) Storage standard 7200RPM HDD (no SSD or Ramdisk) RAM 8GB DDR3

I hope others will post some system details. In particular I'm interested in Windowed vs Fullscreen, OS, and whether Adobe AIR is updated. If you don't want to share system specs that is fine.

EDIT: I expect my strange results with saving 3-10s in Crash Site is due to it being NG+ as explained in the follow up post I made after this one. Don't think destroying destructible rocks actually does anything.

Denmarkghuia9 years ago

Well one issue I have with this particular glitch is that it stops the timer, but we use the timer for timing of course. So maybe we could have a any% no stopped timer (I'm sure someone can come up with a better name).

I don't like glitchless because glitches are subjective and should be used in speedruns, but I feel this particular glitch breaks the game enough to warrant a new category. any% should of course still be a category, but it doesn't have to be the main one we run.

Denmarkghuia9 years ago

Maybe I was just lucky to hit the boss trigger quick. I kinda just walked left for maybe 3/4 of a screen and then tried doing some teleport shots as if the hill that is normally there was still there and jumped around a bit hoping to get high enough. I really don't know why it worked, but it did.

Denmarkghuia9 years ago

The following is based on the OTS steam speedrunning community post

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTSRuns/discussions/0/535152511359381492/

by rezoons.

If you spend a lot of time in the starting area the game will break. Rezoons says it usually happens when music loops so maybe it has something to do with that (I had music turned off so can't confirm that).

You can see that the game breaks because the smoke from you spaceship disappears and your FPS will drop by exactly 20% (30 -> 24 or 60 -> 48 as measured by steam). At that point level transitions and loading seems to not work so you can go off screen and do stuff without the new level loading. I'm not sure what exactly happens off screen, but if you go left from starting area you can hit the boss fight trigger.

Video of me doing it and getting a 5:16 time:

Technically I suppose this is NG any% WR, but in my opinion we should make a new main category which excludes this glitch as it removes any fun from the game except for the initial run to the gun. Would love to hear what others think though and how we should handle this.

ezah, Timbouton, och PrettzL gillar detta
Denmarkghuia10 years ago

I've made 2 short guides on chaining teleport shots and on how the ghost AI works. Excuse my terrible accent; I think I'm understandable for the most part which I guess is the main point.

Chaining teleport shots:

Ghost AI:

I still haven't completely figured out the green beam glitch. I think I've found out the reason for my inconsistent results. If the teleport shot travels 8 pixels/frame¤ along the green beam then the frame before it hits the block it could be anything between 1-8 pixels away. If it is only 1 pixel away on the frame before the teleport, then you need to jump on frame 3, but if it is 8 pixels away on the frame before the teleport, then you need to jump on frame 4. I still have trouble really understanding where the line is drawn, and exactly how you can manipulate it to get consistent jumps. I think ultimately we may just need to grind it until it's muscle memory with the help of the audio cue maybe.

¤ This is not the actual speed. I haven't actually measured the speed, but it is somewhere around 8 pixels/frame (at 30FPS).

Tigame tycker om detta
Denmarkghuia10 years ago

Regarding the exact timing of the green beam jump, I've recorded myself doing it and looked at it frame by frame and it seems to be inconsistent. The game seems to create a platform for you to jump on that lasts for 4 frames after you are teleported (at 30FPS, frame 1 is the first frame where you do not appear in your original spot). If you jump on frame 1 or 2 you always hit the block. If you jump on frame 3 you usually hit the block, but sometimes it just seems to magically work anyway. If you jump on frame 4 you usually get the jump but sometimes you also hit the block. If you jump on frame 5 and later nothing happens.

I've noticed that FPS often drops by 1 after you do the teleport and I suspect that may mess with the physics and be responsible for the inconsistencies.

I'll look into it further with more samples and also record my key presses and maybe put together a video if I can get any meaningful information. When it is a 1-2 frame trick though I think it has to rely to a large extend on muscle memory to get consistently.

I can also do a video on upward chaining.

Denmarkghuia10 years ago

I'm interested in establishing an "All collectibles%" category for this game. It seems megadrive at least is also interested. If anyone else is interested or has any thoughts on the category I would love to hear from you.

I would suggest that it would mean completing the game while collecting: Gun + Gun Upgrade, 11 Abandoned Cores, and 3 Ancient Artifacts

This would not include the ship gun upgrade given by the traitor as a reward for collecting all 11 abandoned cores. My reasoning for this is that it's not actually something you physically collect, but something you're given. I'd be open to including it though as it has very little effect on anything but the final spaceship fight.

I've done a quick run to show my route and to set a baseline for the category. It has a time of 11:10 (ingame time) and can be found here:

Plenty of mistakes in the run, but overall I think it shows the route well.

Some notes on the route: The run is very similar to the any% run except you do the route to the alien city twice and on the second run you pick up all collectibles. My route is pretty self-explanatory from the video. One thing to note is that I do a deathwarp after picking up the advanced gun and to do this I want as little health as possible so I postpone picking up Ancient Artifacts whenever reasonable. With 2 HP the way to do it is:

  1. Teleport to the brick
  2. Destroy brick
  3. Wait there to take hit from monster which boosts you down to where the gun is
  4. Pick up the gun and lose the last health on the monster.

In Grigori's Tower and The Guard I think there might be some potential for using damage boosts to ascend quicker (mainly using the ghosts). We have 4HP and the ghosts seem to be in great position to damage boost us up. I haven't worked this out yet.

In the run I pick up (timestamps are IGT where I pick them up):

11 Abandoned cores (AC): 1: Alien City: Weird Island (2:12) 2: A New Hope (2:25) 3: Lost Mountaintop (2:52) 4. Secret Cliff (3:17) 5: Chomper's Hill (4:02) 6: Alien Outpost (4:42) 7: Underground Secret (4:56) 8: Floating Island (5:25) 9: Crumbling Sector (7:28) 10: Basement (8:40) 11: The Traitor (9:07)

3 Ancient Artifacts: 1: City Tunnel (2:22) 2: Forgotten Ruins (3:54) 3: Outpost Cache (4:37)

Advanced Gun: Oh My God You Are Stubborn (3:28)

Screenshots of these collectibles: https://imgur.com/a/sw5nK

Some notes on the different collectibles and why I do them how I do them; in order of pickup (AC = Abandoned Core, AA = Ancient Artifact, AdvGun = Gun upgrade): AC1: Could be taken on either visit to Alien City. AA1: Done after first visit to Alien City as it gives easy deathwarp to Crash Site and picking it up after second visit costs some time. AC2: AC3: AC4: AdvGun: Note that you can do deathwarp here. Ideally you should only have 2 hp points, lose one on the way to the pickup and use the damage boost to fall down, and then kill yourself on the way out. AA2: Pick up after AdvGun for easier deathwarp. AC5: Could be taken on first run to Alien City. AA3: Pick up after AdvGun for easier deathwarp. AC6: I think this should be taken after AA3, but I'm not 100% sure that's the quickest way. Alternatively when you first go through here you can use the blue beams to get it without losing much time, and then you can go straight forward after picking up AA3. However this leaves the question of whether to get AA3 or AC6 on first run to Alien City. If you get AA3 first, then deathwarp at Advanced Gun will be slower, but if you get AC6 first then you have to go down under Junkyard for AC7 after AA3 which loses some time compared to going straight from Outpost Cache to Junkyard Exit without travelling through Junkyard. AC7: AC8: Could be taken on first run to Alien City. AC9: AC10: The cycles seem to work out better if you take this on the way back from the Guard Alien. I messed up the cycles after by doing safe strats, but if timed right it should only miss 1 cycle on the elevator to get the powerup compared to optimal Any% elevator ride. AC11: I almost forgot this. Easy to get if you remember it though.

Denmarkghuia10 years ago

I'm not a runner so please correct me if any of this is inaccurate, but from watching the WR run and trying to replicate the tricks my impression is that there are 2 "glitches".

Green beam jump: When you get teleported to the top of a green beam for a short span of time you can actually jump as if you stood on a platform. So if you hold a movement key and time your jump right you can jump out of the top of a green beam. This in particular allows you to get on top of the block that blocks the green beam at the top.

Repeated teleport jump/Upwards boost: If you shoot your teleport gun at a wall and when the bullet hits you still have upwards momentum and is holding the jump button, then you seem to get a boost to your upwards momentum. So if you time it right you can keep your upwards momentum for something like 5 teleports and climb quite high before you start falling down. To still have upwards momentum when the bullet hits the wall you need to be close to the wall, almost so close that the teleport doesn't work. You can see this happen quite clearly on the level "Chomper's hill" (about 50s into the speedrun by IGT). Another good level to look at is "Jail in the Mountain" (about 1:10 into the speedrun by IGT) where upwards boost is used for its own sake and not to chain together teleport jumps.

Maybe there are some smaller subtle glitches I'm not aware of, but AFAIK these are the only real glitches used in the WR run.

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