"In RTA, you can potentially have the 100% ideal strat played perfectly and lose simply because someone else's console loaded 3 frames faster than yours, which just isn't fair."

Alternatively, you could have someone using slower strats and has more poor play than you beat your time because of how inaccurate IGT is, as evidenced by Eon's post very clearly, with ewaller and dagpetter1 confirming.

At that point it's not competing for whoever's faster and plays better, but finds the more exploitable method. You're sacrificing fairness and accuracy for convenience of not using a timer.

That's just my opinion though from my running of this game, which is admittedly not as extensive as Eon, ewaller, dagpetter1, and even MarioManTAW.

Yeah the background looked weird to me because it isn't big enough to fill the screen and repeats.

Here's a big 'ol one if someone needs it. Can be resized and junk.

Twitch cutting VODs in half is extremely common and can happen simply from someone hosting your stream. When submitting runs with that, you just submit the first part as your submission, and then post the other parts in the comment so that it's easily accessible and simple to find.

Timers are not required to be on video in speedruns. There's many people who post raw gameplay and use a timer off-camera (especially common in Japanese Super Mario 64 runs-- like Xiah who holds world records). It's inconvienient for Mods who probably have to retime it ourselves if there's something fishy, but there's no reason to reject a run just because someone is using their phone as a timer for example and streaming using the PS4's Twitch feature. LiveSplit or XSplit shouldn't be a requirement for someone to speedrun.

I went and looked at your Twitch page, Saravati. I skimmed the two videos and only could find one disconnect but that disconnect was around 6 minutes long. It's hard for me to really give a concrete answer, because in the Senran Kagura 2 boards there's a run posted without video. But I watched it live myself, and the runner didn't care enough about the game to highlight it. There's also several runs in other games where the run is missing footage because of someone hosting them and getting quality options so Twitch gets all Twitchy.

So I'd have to go with what Token said in the last message, where it entirely depends on how much is missing, or the circumstances. Your VOD is missing like 6 minutes of gameplay, though it has sound. I'm admittedly much more lenient than most moderators on the site. But because I haven't played the game myself yet (no PS4 yet), I'd probably leave it to Token to decide as he submitted the game and definitely has more knowledge than me on the route (TeaOfJay also beat the game, but hasn't started routing yet).

There's talk that download on the New 3DS is faster than cart on N3DS. Though I haven't tested it myself.

Though it's confirmed that N3DS is naturally faster than reg 3DS no matter what version.

Got a few runs under my belt now.

52:21 is my current PB in any%. I died three times for some reason in the Backswitch level which was abysmal. Otherwise everything went well (I didn't do any of the skips as I'm still a scrub).

1:58:41 is my All Castles time right now, which I'm pretty proud of, actually. Similarly, I didn't do any of the skips like I'm supposed to haha. The elevator one is so hard, and I don't understand why I constantly take damage doing the Lava Ride one.

I think the hardest stage in the run to do optimally is the Castle with the icicles falling from the roof. The timings are so precise and movement tight.

I think I'll be doing that stage safe for a while intil I get really used to things.

Thanks a lot guys, I just finished my first run of it at 2:28:23.

Lots of mistakes and deaths, but I greatly enjoyed it.

Heya! I became really interested in running this game recently and wanted to go ahead and get my beginner/noob questions out there.

1. I noticed in almost every Mario speedrun that you skip the checkpoints intentionally. Any particular reason for it? Is your run invalid if you get a checkpoint?

2. Is there also a reason for going out of your way to get the bottom of the flagpole? I noticed in a lot of the runs sometimes runners will even jerk back to land further down the flagpole in mid air just to get it.

3. I'm really interested in doing "All Castles" mainly, is there a reason you skip some of the mid-boss castles? Do they not count?

Thanks for any help. I've always wanted to run a 2D Mario game and felt like with a rut I've been in, this would be the perfect speedrun to get into.

Will No Secret Exits be changed to "All Castles"? Since you're required to get at least one Secret Exit to complete the game (to my knowledge)? Correct me if I'm wrong, was curious about starting to run this game.

That's exactly my point though, I don't think videos should be needed for every single submission. To keep bending what's an exception or what's not is assinine. For example you could say "requiring video for a 3DS is fine beause you could just point a webcam at it."

But again, the legality of emulators is the LEAST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY POST, and one I did not even bring up, as you just admitted that you were the one to escalate that point and input meaning that wasn't intended in any way.

EDIT: To put more perspective, I have two runs where I did a 3DS speedrun with a camera on my screen.

Final Edit: To put my final word on this and leave it to avoid derailing any further:

The point I was making: The people in this thread to say that people SHOULD NOT SPEEDRUN or find a different hobby if they aren't willing to invest in it, but then not invest in it themselves by using emulators, I feel is backhanded.

Abandon, your link isn't even about pirating games, it's about the legality of the Game Genie when altering and attached to the original work.

"Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. ("Galoob") markets and sells toy products. Galoob has a license to market a video game accessory known as the Game Genie Video Game Enhancer ("Game Genie"), which attaches to a video game cartridge and allows the player to temporarily alter certain attributes of the video game. It is sold for personal consumer use only, not for video game arcades. The Game Genie does not create a separate copy of the original video game, does not make permanent changes to the original game work, and can only be used when attached to the original game."

I'll read more about it now, incase it's in the middle.

EDIT: No, I wasn't the one who brought up the legality. I said if you're going to claim you need to invest in the hobby, then using emulators to support your stance should not be allowed. You brought up the entire illegal or not, Timmiluvs.

In that case, it's more expensive to get what's needed for PS2 2FM JPN runs that to capture and run the DS games.

I was purely pointing out that I don't see any weight in the argument "It's a hobby, you're expected to invest." and then listing off exceptions when it benefits the poster, especially when it's emulation that's used for it. As I said, I pulled directly from people's posts (some even by name)-- hardly grounds for assumption I didn't read the thread.

We're focusing on the least important aspect of my argument. I had a similar reaction as you said you did for when people would state others to spend money for the hobby, but then go right around and say they pirate their games-- the opposite of investing. It was also playing in the argument of us trying to appear more "official" and legitimate. Where instead of trying to be like others (who do allow runs without video, ban emulators, and many handheld games requiring video like Puzzle League, Kirby, etc.), we be our own thing, as we're not like the other boards.

I think things as we did for the doc was fine. Time threasholds, top times needing video, etc. That's what my point was. As I was addresing the main arguments I saw as you did to me.

I do apologize for sparking negative feelings, Timmiluvs, it wasn't my intention. As an aside though, Nintendo did address the claim that games no longer in production are free to pirate. I don't agree with that one in specific despite heavily being against piracy, but I brought it up to your claim of me being ignorant.

EDIT: Abandon, when you say "It's technically illegal" following calling me out, it hurts your point :P Downloading illegally copied roms that are not from your owned copy is illegal. But even ignoring that, I don't even care if others use emulators, I was pointing out the flaw in the investment argument when using emulators. That's all. This is the least important part of my point I was making whether emulators are illegal or not. EDIT AGAIN: Actually, I wasn't even the one to bring up the legality of it. Come on, with this.

I have read all of the thread. I was stating my stance on this subject all in one post, as many others have done (some even stating pre-face they didn't read the thread) and hope to be taken as seriously as the rest. I wasn't attacking anyone, and even pulled from people posts flat out. So your post is odd to me with how condescending in tone it is.

You do see the irony when you claim I don't know what I'm talking about when the law does state pirating a copy of game even should you own one is illegal, I hope.

EDIT: http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

From Nintendo Officially, since you're mainly talking about emulators and piracy for DS and 3DS games.

It's a bit strange money is always brought up, but then lines are moved with exceptions. Slower versions of games are their own boards instead of investing in the fastest setup (We even had 2.5 JP and EN combined for a while on this site). Video rule being more lax on some users, or just flat out not required for handhelds (other "official" boards not being so nice. We're trying to be more official, right?). People with internet data caps being out of luck. Promoting piracy over this issue. "ALL runs should require video! No exceptions, it's idiotic to even argue this. It's an investment like all hobbies." then in the same post "I pirate and emulate my games."

I like what someone mentioned earlier-- don't make things more complicated or mean more than it needs to be. I keep hearing the stance "being more official". But we have almost 200(?) times submitted in 1.5, three of the top 20 no video, and over half of the rest without video without any issue coming up. But now that's an issue? One of the arguments for requiring video is people's feelings because someone might beat their time and they can't say "pics or it didn't happen". However the sleight against those not agreeing is that "I can't imagine anyone feeling alienated they can't submit their times." It's literally the same argument.

I don't find anything idiotic from people having different perspectives-- especially when they've got legitimate criticisms for their stances. Most of from my perspective for the video-requiring is those who ARE better off going "lmao shit out of luck, man. Find another hobby". As someone mentioned as well, many use leaderboards NOT for the competitive nature, but as a central hub to post their times. Remember, speedrunning is a personal hobby. Some run to beat their PBs, some run many games.

I know my perspective is very unpopular and in the minority, but I can't imagine the thought process to say "EVERYTHING requires video if you can't invest the money then find a different hobby" and then list exceptions because of money concerns. Or saying "it's nothing but what-ifs or unprovable feelings" as Bizkit said, then proceed to do the very same thing for people being salty and angry that someone beat their time but didn't post a video (as many top runners- SpikeVegeta, Bl00dyBizkit, and iiSalad have all admitted they fall into whether intentional or outside forces causing it. LiquidWifi also having a few missing videos. All of these are very reputable and respected runners).

We won't suddenly be seen as this awful and unprofessional community because the 1.5 boards have over half without video. Having a time cutoff would make it so those with top times can still require video as proof, and those who fall under it can strive to meet that good time. If someone has a 4:15 in 1.5 and somehow get mad (see how this argument is actually identical?) someone without video got a 4:14, then they can strive to get a 3:30 (or wherever the cut-off was made) and not even worry about that arbitrary time not having video.

I'm not sure if I'm wording myself well or if I probably made a few enemies from this post. But I simply can't see any legitimate reason to require every run to have video. Especially with how many people in the community have called certain times bad in this very thread on both sides. So I can't imagine them caring at all a 4 hour 1.5 run being submitted with nothing accompanying it and them having a huge issue with it. Everyone wins.

When you want to be taken more officially, then not only promote piracy, but move the line drawn for a "no exception" line, you just look more unprofessional than before. From my perspective, having a well discussed cut-off time for requiring video makes the most sense and everyone wins. For those who feel proof is most important for good times would have that, and those who give no shit whatsoever would not have a time that it even matters if video is there or not.

This is my thoughts on the matter, and I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm not used to this kind thing.

Another thing to consider is if moderators will actually watch the video submissions. In that same community I mentioned that required videos for handhelds or you should just change hobbies, they didn't even have moderators checking the videos. So they had illegal runs on their boards as top times for months without anyone noticing.

So if we do require video for everything, will the moderators take the time to make sure runs are legitimate all the way through?

I like the way some Kirby boards did it (I don't know if they still do).

There's two things that need video proof. Top 5, and anything under a certain time requires video proof. This way top times all have video proof, and if someone wants to take speedrunning beyond just a fun little hobby and into a serious competitive thing, then they have to invest. There's many KH runners who use webcam on their TV (I can think of 3 just off the top of my head) with competitive times in KH1.5, so that's a cheap option for that.

An example could be with 2.5 2FM Beginner any% that anything under 5:20 needs video proof. Though a few runs would be grandfathered in, I assume. As Bl00dy's 2nd place time doesn't have a video, though a lot of people could vouch for it as they were there for it.

That's also how Hyrule Warriors did it for a while. We require video for top 5 times, and for ILs a screenshot (because Wii U can post screenshots to Miiverse, and each stage has a victory screen with your time).

That way everyone wins. Some of the HW runners were located in Australia and had home issues. So they couldn't stream due to awful internet and lack of being able to use Wii U/Computer because it was a "family room".

But to counter my example, some communities are so against no video submissions that they'll flat out tell you to find a different hobby (I won't name examples to avoid any arguments). But their reasoning is hard to argue with outside of personal morality. Even if it's a handheld game.

So my vote would be for requiring videos only for hitting below a reasonably good time.

EDIT: I 100% agree with Drazark. The community I wouldn't name was for a handheld game. And I being 100% noob to emulators had to learn how to use them because they wouldn't accept any run without video. I've done handheld runs with webcam (My Senran Kagura 2) for two hours on my 3DS and god did it kill my wrists holding my 3DS up to be decent at best visability.

There's been talk about adding a Cia DLC category for some time now, just no one bothered running it. But then it comes to the question of what' the rules will be. Will it be in Legend Mode since it's Cia's Story, afterall. Or would it be Free Mode like most the NG+ categories? Things like that.

Non-recommended categories already exist.

Glitchless categories already exist-- the only glitches known in Hyrule Warriors speedruns are possible in NG+ any%. Glitches aren't possible in the other categories. So you have many (at least 7 minimum) you can pick from for glitchless.

There's also been talk about having Majora's Mask DLC and Twilight Princess DLC Adventure Map categories in Misc, but since no one has run them (like with Master Quest only having 1 person), they seem arbitrary to add unless more people participate in them.

Link-less Category and Master Sword-less are basically any% and just race ideas.

Well, one good thing is that you reminded me of exploits that were found recently by a NG+ runner, so we should add rules anyway for that-- and we'll add the things you asked about in the OP just to have it be more clear for newer runners.

Totally understandable coming from one community to another. I'll go ahead and do that now.

EDIT: I did it, if there's anything else that's unclear or should be added, let me know!

IL times are just trying to complete the levels as fast as possible using whatever you want. You can do them on Legend Mode, or Free Mode. Any character at all. There's no reason to put variables because there's screenshots typically showing you who they used.

You can have a great IL in Legend Mode and in Free Mode, so there's no reason to limit it. I think in one of them, Book Lana is actually a little better to use, but more risky than MS Link becasue if you mess up the strats then she's slower in the end.

Basically the IL board doesn't have that stuff because there isn't any rules limiting you. Pick who you want, how you want.

Adventure Mode Misc catagory doesn't have variable for characters because the game forces you to use 4 different characters, and that you can use whoever you want for other stages. For my run I'll use Horse Link on some stages that others use Master Sword.

I'm not sure what having a variable for characters would add. We already have a few unnecessary ones as-is, and we're not using just one character for a while run in any category to my knowledge. So it wouldnt be accurate to have that on the leaderboards. Maybe in ILs I could kinda see it being a option, but with screenshots it'd be redundant.

ILs are just use whatever you want, and do a stage as fast as possible. So there's no rules on limits. Though now that you bring it up, I wonder if Apothecary would be something to think about for them?

I've noticed there are no rules for this game. Are there any plans to post some for those interested in the speedrun?