I agree with both Ewil and Havrd, I know it may seem a bit ridiculous from an outsiders view, but coming from someone who has ran this game a lot, the only thing the intro does is make your life miserable and is a huge hindrance for the competetiveness. I strongly believe that people will like the run a lot more if we remove the intro. Most runners get tired of this game, and I don't blame them. It's a pain to go through the same 8 minutes of stuff a 3 year old could do after 5 minutes of practice, only to get to the part after the intro which is known to be one of the biggest run killers. I'm gonna mention again that this isn't some serious fucking olympic sport with rules and standards, it's just a few guys playing a game fast, it's a hobby, and if we get the choice to make it much more enjoyable, at the only drawback of losing the worst part of the run, I'm sure most people who have ran this game agrees that it should be skipped.
The reason the Freezer is considered the "real" beginning of the run is because that is when we gain FULL control of our character. It's not like we're just tired of the tutorial and want to skip it. Maybe that's why this was brought up, because all runners will learn to hate it. It's dreadful and wastes time. However there are way too many communities that skip tutorials or start in other areas.
Jinjenia: The intro may be miserable, but that's not really a reason to skip it. It's simply part of the game and you have to deal with. If you don't like it, don't run it. The problem is that this intro is not 100% consistent. Looking at Bubbles's WR, his first split says +1.0 compared to his previous run. Does that look consistent to you? That can be a difference between WR and 2nd place, as we have already seen on this leaderboard. If you skip this part, you basically don't complete the game, so please do yourselves a favor and never call your runs "World records", because it will be an utter lie.
Zefie: True :)
ManBun: What exactly is this FULL control of your character? You can control your character just fine during the intro.
havrd: Dishonored - seems like that's just intro cutscene, but unless you can do some inputs during it, it doesn't change anything regarding the time, so I guess it's okay. Mirror's Edge - can't really comment on this one since there are no rules (lol) and I don't know the game well enough to see what's different. Skyrim - from what I've seen, it's mostly auto-scroller. If it always ends at the same time, I'm fine with skipping it.
The assertion that you can't play a videographical computerized game however you want is absurd. In the first place, starting at 'new game' is arbitrary because you can make timesaving input from starting the game. Ending time at the main quest montage is also arbitrary, since the game does not end. Fallout, a game that you run, allows the use of a 3rd party patch, which is even arbitrarier. Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation, a game that you both run and mod, bans running on the Japanese version, which is the arbitrariest thing I've ever seen.
In short, don't throw stones in a glass house.
We have had a vote between the runners, it turned out 7-0 after several weeks. The people that care have had good time to vote. We have already decided that it's gonna get implemented. A while ago, we had a vote if we should allow changing fps for coverslides, I voted against it, but the vote turned out to favor allowing it. I could go on and argue about it, but it's not gonna change the fact that it got allowed. This time, my vote was on the bigger side, and now this is gonna get implemented as well. Fair and square. I'm not telling you to fuck off or anything, but I'm just letting you know that it doesn't matter if it's immoral or "part of the game". I don't think there is a "Speedrunner Association" that outlaws this. We voted like this as a community, and in the end we're just making our speedrunning experience a little bit better, at the cost of someone else not running the game disliking it.
Zefie: "The assertion that you can't play a videographical computerized game however you want is absurd."
You can play a game however you want, just don't call it speedrun if it's not complete. By all means create a separate category "Any% no intro" or so, just leave Any% as is.
Steam version of Fallout allows you to use sfall, which is probably that 3rd party patch you mention. It's an officially released version, so what's wrong with that? Speaking of 3rd party stuff, you do know that changing framerate with Dxtory is pretty much TAS? Yet you use it in F4 runs.
Tomb Raider: The only thing you get from Japanese versions are enemies with less health, which specially in case of TR4 is rather pointless since pretty much everything dies in one shot or gets skipped. Since 2006, I saw ONE run done on Japanese version. Nobody runs this version and nobody complained. If they do, I'm open for discussion.
Jinjenia: " I don't think there is a "Speedrunner Association" that outlaws this. We voted like this as a community, and in the end we're just making our speedrunning experience a little bit better, at the cost of someone else not running the game disliking it."
Too bad there isn't such organization, because what some speedrunning communities do is unbeliveable.
I wonder how people not running this game are gonna react to a run without intro gameplay. Good luck defending it on Youtube... or just disable comments.
j00lsn: "Ewil try running the game for a month and then you will understand what this is about!"
I know what it's about. It's about making running this game easier, because the intro is frustrating and you'll get sick of it quickly.
Ewil please run this game and tell me what you think. You literally are the most thickskulled guy i have ever seen and you don't even speedrun this game. Why does this effect you? How? You can't just trash a million communities because you don't like what they do. We all voted on this, and we all had time to vote. Whether or not YOU think this is moral or whatever is NOT RELEVANT. If it helps you sleep at night, Bubbles Del Fuego will forever have the "Any% With Intro" WR buddy :)
And if changing FPS in a run to not fucking crash is a TAS, well by all means my PB is a TAS.
Imagine caring more about placating youtube shitposters than having fun playing the video game
Edit: I just realized that by replying I'm placating youtube-tier shitposters honestly just fuck me up
I love how you are literally also talking shit about all the other speedgames that do this Ewil, if you are such a big boy, how about you go over to the Dishonored forums and write about it there. How about Mirrors Edge? Hell, go get lauched at by the Elder Scrolls runners aswell. Oh, what's that? You won't? Abit more scary when its a bigger community isn't it, i have been overly nice to you and your literal lack of reflection. I am done with discussing this with you. How about you do something productive like doing your segmented runs well so that you are not 30 seconds behind WR in a 5 minute game. You are NOT a part of this community, stop acting like it.
For the last time Sincerely Havrd
you can even lose more time in Skyrim because of AI bugging out, in a shorter intro, you can even softlock 👌
Ewil "I know what it's about. It's about making running this game easier" - Nope it doesn't make the game any easier, it just removes a whole lot of frustration for a) speedrunners and b) their twitch audience so they get more chance to see a complete speedrun instead of hours of countless restarts, period!
ManBun: I've seen plenty of Bubbles's streams to see the issue you're having with this intro. Yes, I don't run this game and I'm not part of this community. Does that make my points any less valid? Sounds like you think so.
How does this rule effect me? It literally makes me sick to my stomach to think that someone would "cheat" in speedrunning by cutting a part of a game just to have a better chance to get WR, while all previous runners simply had to deal with that part. And I too hope that Bubbles will have the WR forever.
As for TAS, I was specifically talking about changing the framerate from 60 to 20 to make coverslides more consistent (sorry if it wasn't clear from my post), not the actual 60fps lock.
havrd: And I love how you never reply to my arguments about the intro giving inconsistent times, some sort of "FULL" control or "real" beginning ManBun was talking about, whatever that means, or the fact that by skipping this part you don't play the full game. Instead you talk about stuff that has nothing to do with F4, completely throwing my arguments under a carpet. Good job arguing.
Like I said in my previous post, if Skyrim, Dishonored, ME or any other communities just skip auto-scroller or the beginning cutscene that always end up with the same time, I'm fine with that. Although sometimes I think this "cut" part should be included into the timer (just time, not the actual video). Even if there was something fishy in other games, like this rule you're going to add to F4, the decision was already made and applied to runs, so I'm pretty sure my opinion would be just ignored. I can't really imagine that mods would change rules and timing for a game with hundred of runs, based on one individuals opinion. That's just not gonna happen :) So it would be a waste of time, if you ask me. You know it and I know it. In case of F4, the rule is still "in process" if I may say so, so I merely decided to point out that it has several major flaws. It had nothing to do with how big community this is. Why didn't I do this in other communities? Because I simply didn't know about it till people started using it in their runs, or I haven't noticed, because I don't know the game well enough. I hope that answers your question.
For your information, by the time I did my F1 segmented run, it was the fastest time by about half a minute (don't remember exactly). Couple weeks/months later, PLANET did an extensive research and found a lot more tricks and new strats, which is the reason why my run is actually slower than Any% - because it uses obsolete strats. I never improved it, because people started to change settings in ¤.ini files, which I believe I agreed to at first, then later realized it's wrong, and also started using russian translation, which has faster combat animation, because an artist probably did a lazy job and only drew half of the frames.
molluskmoth: Please read my previous post. Thank you.
j00lsn: I said making RUNNING this game easier, not make the game easier. Please...
"b) their twitch audience so they get more chance to see a complete speedrun instead of hours of countless restarts, period!"
I thought speedrunning is about completing a game legitimately as fast as you can, not about pleasing your twitch audience. I guess I was doing it wrong all that time...
All times will be adjusted. It wont make it easier in any way. I'm not gonna bother arguing to every single point of yours. I'm really surprised how much you care for what a buch of guys does in their hobby. Stop trying to make this more than it is with your morals and whatnot.
I care about it, because the speedrunning community is slowly splitting apart with many game communities having different and sometimes strange rules compared to what used to be a standard set by SDA many years ago.
Well we do not care about you, so stop. You have shown that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about, all the framerate related stuff is there to make people with bad computers compete. You are so far up your own ass, coming here with ZERO information about anything, trying to act like you know.
Go away, now
