The problem with the way it is, is that a runner can say like "Today I will run ALL Characters in NY venue", tomorrow, "ALL characters in Daily budge", next day "All characters in power plant" and so on. So many subcategories and so many runs, with so little runners it really makes no sense. But with venues like variables rather than subcategories it really should be feasible. It was what I was thinking since start. But again, we have to admit that if we allow variables including pit stages, ALL RUNS will be in pit stages for obvious reason. So it would become a "how fast you throw enemies at a stage pit" run instead of a versus fight.
I don't really understand the point on having these pit stages for the time being. These stages can be explored later in other categories with more people.
But if you want them so much, then I really liked @MysticManiac idea, I think it's a way to arrest the case, and everyone's happy =)
The way I thought was the level choice being set in the rules themselves. instead of having so many multiple "sub categories".
Because it means I can have half a dozen record runs, being 1 per stage. Well it was not what I thought all the way lol I was thinking about characters and not stages. But if you guys want to have level runs, I won't condem it. I just not feel like running.
I understand your idea and it should fit in a "Level" Category/leaderboard. Because each level would require a different strategy. The point is you are focusing on the LEVELS. While the point for the new categories we suggested was CHARACTERS.
2 Versus categories. You beat ALL Characters You beat ONE character.
See, the levels matter was a secondary issue.
The point of taking out pit stages from choice is just to bring more competition and skill. Again these categories are not focused on levels.
Later on, we could get a Levels category or something so bridges and pits could be included, same as individual character missions.
@MysticManiac The problem is "Level Leaderboards" exist when it's the objective of the run to beat the level. So runners compete for level records, for how low time you beat each LEVEL. Which is not the case.
The idea of having a versus category was not for having a board for Levels, but simply 2 categories (no matter the levels) in which these 2 categories you beat ALL characters or ONE as fast as possible
And that would make 2 simply new categories
In the way the current board is set, a large number of categories were automatically created. A person can have "1 record per level" lol, which again, for a game with this few number of runners, makes no sense.
I'm in favor of simply creating the 2 categories "Versus - One character" and "Versus - All characters" Inside the full game leaderboard itself.
Dad gum! I just notticed we lost the posts, good we didn't lose the rules for the new categories at least
So, The strat is not for ever trying, because it depends on you have Rage, and manage to knock johnny Ohm on the ground. Is more like a "in case" situation. But if he is on the ground and you get a rage, it does offer a way to kill him by exploiting not lettting him get up again. I pulled of the 2 times i had the circumstance =)
Agreed :-)
So, to end conversation, I think @f1 should create the categories as followed:
===== "VERSUS - One Character %"
• Win a single match on Versus mode.
Time starts when you choose the stage and ends in victory cutscene
Settings:
- Versus difficulty: HARD
- Stage: NY STREETS, AVENGERS MANSION, POWER PLANT or ROEKEL HEADQUARTERS
- 9 Lives match
=== "VERSUS - All Characters %" • Choose your prefer character and beat all characters in the game in the order you want.
Time starts when you choose the stage of first fight and ends in victory cutscene of last fight
Settings:
- Versus difficulty: HARD
- Stages: NY STREETS, AVENGERS MANSION, POWER PLANT, ROEKEL HEADQUARTERS
- 3 lives a match ===
Any more things to consider? :-)
I nottice a concern from you to also use weak characters, as they are part of the game. :-) which honestly, I think is pretty smart. We could think later of a "mirror versus%" or something, where we have a sub category for each character. We would have to fight wolverine vs wolverine, elektra vs elektra and so on. Why not?
After all, the versus fights are the essence of this game basically.
@MysticManiac I will definitively look up for my Discord account, I've lost like 2 years ago lol xD I promess
Power plant and NY streets are the most suitable maps imo. Although NY is still the most balanced. Because there are more cars that can be lift by big number of characters and just one super heavy object that is the Van. While in Power plant there are more of those giant tubes that can be lift by a very limited number of characters (only the super stronger ones)
To me both are suitable, as well as Avengers mansion.
We could leave the option to choose between the 3
// Avengers mansion // Power plant //NY streets //.
I think those stages are the best for Versus No Pits and no overhazarding stuff. And we can leave runner choose between any of those 3, up to the runner's strategy choice.
As for like subcategories, I think we should start slowly. If we were to create a subcategory for each character we would have too many subcategories. As you mentioned, we might wait a bit before there's a substantial number of runners before creating a large number of categories and sub ones. With just a couple of runners competing it would make not much sense.
For start I guess 2 simple Versus, one character and all characters, would be a good start. Because the one character is a more fast run. And the all characters works like an "arcade" mode.
Maybe later we could think about categories with weak characters as you mentioned :-)
While we decide I took the liberty and already made a run on versus one character, :-)
That's a good question
The way I see it, it would be more challenging to use the same character, so player would have to practise with this character and it would make more sense having a prefer character. It would be less cheap as well, not changing characters to beat one or another. And also, less complicated.
But this is the way I see :-)
About the stages, the problem with other stages is that they have too much hazards or things to throw. The power plant have so many huge things to throw that can allow you to kill opponents too fast using only this, and would be almost as cheap as ringing them out. The Roekel headquarters have so many hazards that makes you or your opponent ping-pong sometimes just hitting random explosive things. I played NY and it seems perfect for a fair challenge because it only has a few cars and bus stops and light poles. There is plenty of space to maneuver around and only one huge thing to throw that is a Van.
As for the bridge and avengers mansion, There is not really a problem, except they are the most boring stages on the game imo. NY streets look more like a ring, the perfect place for a fair and balanced brawl xD
I suggested "All characters" to be 3 lives because is the default setting btw, and when you finish a fight and get back to character choose screen it is automatically set to 3 lives always, so it's better for fast pick. Also 3 lives seems a reasonable challenge.
That's exactly what I thought. Yesterday I was running and managed to quickly ring 2 bosses out, just flying around. In those stages it would be very easy. cheap tedious run. But if it was in stages that actually requires fighting it would be a thing to consider. Specially when you pick your character of choice AND your CPU enemy of choice. we would set differenty strats.
*EDIT
@CriscoWild Thanks! I had some runs waiting to be uploaded but I was waiting until we all could figure this about the board. Btw, I never said you were opposed to organize the boards. I just couldn't find you because I don't have Discord or Twitch ><'
@JayTheIdiot also told me only the super mod could modify boards but @Liv told me that as a matter of fact any mod can do it (we both didn't know til then) but by the point we knew you already came here, so =)
Thank You. Btw, how did you manage to split boards without deleting them? I mod some games myself, I didn't know it was possible Oo
Yeah. I have no problem in f1 not being around on the forum, as he seems to be around in speedrun.com at least once or twice every week. So the important is that he gets notified of new runs if they are submitted. The bad thing in the site is having a inactive mod for weeks or so, which is not the case.
Thanks for the support ^^
I've read all your strat guides, and watched Falco's runs as well =)
I look forward for your runs too. I hope you can fix your disc and get some free time.
Cheers!
I think you're right. For us who intend to give a complete run on the game it could be tedious.
Nevertheless, I think it would be a good way to bring people that feel like running the game but feel frustration in attempts in story mode. I can't count how many times I hated the game with my guts lol for bad lucks that kill the runs, for the auto aim for example. It requires a lot of patience.
The reason I still think it's a point consider is because some people become interested in running the game after they saw the rules of a category, and they see it's beatable.
Thanks. I think I will stick up with the PS2 version, since is running okay with my old ps2. Some other games don't work in my ps2 though lol
I loved this game on its release back then and never got tired of playing it. I'm back playing it and I'm currently running this game almost everyday, so I will be posting runs as soon as I get a satisfying time. I'm used to moderating games in Speedrun.com, so it would be a pleasure to moderate this game.
I would love to help the forum. if you guys think it would be good to have more than one mod =)
Cheers!
