What about Stadium / Stadium 2's game boy mode? (with 1x speed obviously)

Good idea, Naegleria, I found this interesting as well: http://www.speedrun.com/sms

Have "Single File" and "Card Duplication & Pocketstation" (in this order) be sub-categories of Any%, and for the rest, default ruleset being single file.

While at it, I think it would be a good way to segregate the jap-pocketstation cards runs and english-legacy ones on NG+ as well. This way the leaderboards don't get mixed up (because people using english/restricted are not competing with people using jap, and vice-versa), and there's no need for "two leaderboards" entirely.

The 100% being misc or non misc is a whole other issue imo.

Deln, it's not a "glitch", it's just a memory card filing system exploit that makes the run literally a series of starter deck rolls and trades to make a deck, then clear campaign. Everyone knew about it pretty much since the game was launched, but it makes "speedruns" dull as fuck.

The gist of the "beat the game" runs were always to roll with the file you made and get the cards in there playing the game, not by abusing the copy - tradeover system multiple times. It's not a matter of "let's stay in comfort of our slower route", it's just not interesting.

The drama was generated because everyone always had a common-sense agreement that this type of runs would just be disregarded as a whole, but in a sense it can leave "loopholes" on the leaderboards (since you don't actually use a "cheat device" to duplicate cards so the run technically stays legit), and somebody finally decided to touch them.

Thanks Kollin! It would be cool if other regular runners read this post, so there's a civil solution to this whole crisis acoording to how the game works in a speedrun fashion, and how players speedrun it.

As another minor thing, might as well allow Pocketstation use in the card dupe any% as well since we're at it. I'm not sure what would the policy be since I know very little about how it works but oh well :v

I'm not on reddit / twitter / youtube / discord / skype / twitch chats or whatever the discussion about this is being scattered so I'll just post this on the dead forum. I heard that there's discussion revolving around the category's names (oooooof course) and which runs should go in which leaderboard. Also, as my personal input, the rule definitions on "card duping" are pretty vague and have to change (before another wannabe-shitposter decides to re-ignite the drama).

On the matter of the Any% run segregation: we all know FM is a unique game for speedrunning, because it's based on random card drops, so we might never see the actual faster routes get faster runs, and slower routes get slower runs. Instead, we have something like this:

• Theoretical route speeds: No duping ~= No THTD > Duping
• Realistic route speeds that will probably hold true in this lifetime: Duping > No Duping > No THTD (god only knows where a pocketstation run would be in this scale hu3hu3hu3)

Fact: Duping is NOT the fastest strategy, it just makes the run insanely more consistent. -- So if someone ever gets a run faster than the duping record, would it be on Any%? Or on both leaderboards?

My suggestion is to segregate both any% leaderboards by their routes (the common sense intention, which, the initial way presented, is technically not clear enough, and can generate doubt and more draaaaaaaaama). I'll use the names "Any% (Single File)" and "Any% (Card Duplication)" for the sake of exemplifying, but they could be whatever.

Option 1: No duping = "Any% (Single File)" ; Duping = "Any% (Card Duplication)" In this option both categories are named by their routes, and the leaderboard segregation stays perfect and coherent. There would be no "Any%" category, but then again this doesnt have to represent an ideal -world speedrun scenario, it has to WORK. And this WORKS.

Option 2: No duping = "Any%" ; Duping = "Any% (Card Duplication)" The traditional category stays as Any%. I don't think there would be any problem on preserving the Any% name as a legacy, but I'm sure other people think differently, and that's perfectly fine.

For better viewing I suggest putting the categories on the following order:

Any% (Single File) - 100% - Any% (Card Duplication) - New Game+

(let's face it, only me and urnator care aboug NG+ (the slow american version route, even) and everyone else doesnt give a shit about it :v honestly it could even be a misc. but thats a whole other story)

Minor things: The 100% leaderboard of course has the single-file characteristic within the rules (I don't think the challenge was made for people to just get the 5 big heishin cards, and copy the starchip-bloated file over and over to get most of the rest, with the option of farming equips+raigeki+dark hole just by doing New Game over and over) No THTD and WT (and other possible Jumpyluff-idea categories, kapap) are obviously no duping. The names dont have to be changed since they are misc-challenge categories, as long as the rules are clear.

Also, regarding to conceptualizing "card duping", here is what would be the detailed ruleset on runs that use the exploit:

• Allows the use of multiple memory cards
• Allows the creation of multiple files by doing "New Game" in different memory cards within the run's real time
• Allows the console feature of copying memory card files
• ¤Allows the trade option between files created within the run's real time, and/or that were only traded within themselves and their copies (both things aaaalso done within the run's real time)

¤(aka no outside pre-made file (s) or trading - even if it's just an empty file made for trades, it has to be new game'd - otherwise it would be NG+ or whatever) (tell me if I forgot anything)

There's obviously a way to compact this into the ruleset that shows on speedrun.com, but those are the bits of information that have to be clear. A run with "duping" is simply one that allows multiple files to be created via New Game, opening the console memory card manager, copying these created files to other memory cards and trading within themselves. It's NOT a glitch, it's an exploit that pretty much every kid that owned the game and played for a few hundred+ hours used.

It might seem like I'm over-circlejerking all this stuff. And yeah I'm probably am :v but since the file copy drama finally started, there has to be some good organization that works, so more drama isn't generated and peace may be restored.

Fact: If someone with some knowledge would want to beat FM as fast as possible (for whatever reason, no need for a speedrun leaderboard), s/he would obviously copy their raigeki and equip with 3 memory cards, as well as whatever good cards they were getting on campaign. It's the consistently fast way, and doesn't require a cheating engine like GS or AR, just the game, console, 2 controllers and 3 memory cards. Technically none of these devices are "cheats". ¤ The "true actual" faster process would be to create several files in several consoles, but for the love of god or whatever you from r/atheism would believe in, let's keep this one-console-only shall we? :D

Fact: NOBODY (okay, ~99.99% kapap) actually gives a shit about the duping run. Any% done within a single file is what people play for now and that most likely won't change. It's the go-to "beat the game" run for runners, fun players and viewers. -- It should show up as the main leaderboards for the game, and the dupe run as the gimmicky multiple-files route that ends up giving the easy-mode to clear campaign from zero.

tl;dr:

• Separate Any% by >>routes<< and be clear with it.
• Specify the nuances of what "card duping" is.
• Any% w/ single file is still and will always be the main thing...
• ...but the run (technically non-cheated) that uses several memory cards, new games, playstation's file copy option, and trades exists and will most likely always beat the game faster in this lifetime. It was just a matter of time before someone brought it up.

I have no intentions of spicing up the drama or showing off some sort of shitposting skills. In this matter, I only want to help the leaderboards to get organized and free of loopholes regarding the dupe run.

Constructive input, discussion and disagreements are encouraged! Peace!

EDIT: I saw that the dupe route was moved to "misc", I think that also works!

It would be an interesting idea to RACE some fun / arbitrary categories (I remember talking about making certain rituals on a gfc stream months ago) just to switch things up a bit, but definitely not that good of an idea to make leaderboards for every single one of them (and this is coming from a guy who really likes fun categories :D ).

No-THTD and WT are already good fun/challenge ones with lederboards (even though a lot of people despise world t). If you want to try out idk, things like "make X rituals" or "NG+ Atec only" (just weird ideas on the top of my head) you can do it and see if others tag along, but creating leaderboards for all fun/challenge categories can turn into a snowball effect, and there's no need really. Even WT only has leaderboards because people ended up playing it a lot I guess. I wonder how a speedrun of "All High Mages + Seto 2" would be... :v

There are two different players named Alex that were put on the same page: http://www.speedrun.com/user/Alex

One is Alex Tolio (SM64) and the other one is Alex Anderson (Bass Boost) All Goldeneye times are Bass Boost's - http://www.twitch.tv/AlexWAnderson All SM64 times are Alex Tolio's - http://www.twitch.tv/alexsm64

I'm going to link this post to both of them. I guess you could create a page for "Bass Boost" (which is Alex Anderson's nickname on the-elite), and transfer his Goldeneye times there, deleting them from "Alex" (which would be Tolio).

"I did this a lot of times, and saw no difference" - nice argument, buddy. You know there are things called "logic" and "statistics" on the real world right? Just because you couldn't notice anything on Duel #1 it doesn't mean that there's no influence. May I remind you that the heishin on your jap emu run is pretty garbage, making your credibility even more irrelevant.

Kollin7... what are you doing here again? LOL

But you know what, decide whatever the hell you want, I don't really care much. If FM wants to be a joke community with bad leaderboards, rules and 90% emulator times (on a PS1 GAME), I won't debate further. I just wanna play the game and have a good time, I'll save the overthought drama for everyone else.

If from now on any%-type categories will disallow resetting with savestates, NG+ should as well. There isn't luck involved on the cards obtained, but there is in everything else on the run just like any other.

Also, 2cents on save-stating to reset runs: http://www.speedrun.com/gtacw/thread/6ptyc

I used 1.8 to do some NG+ pocketstation attempts, and the shrine movement goes so fast that I even got fadeout skip on ocean shrine, lol... and we can't just assume PS2 2.00 is faster just because of fast disc and also not having lag at the 2k's. There's even an option on the video render on the emulator that specifies "faster" over graphic enhancing.

I love how a lot of non-FM runners are making a fuss here, but let's get to the point:

It's kinda messed up how this thing got overlooked. The default leaderboard decision is to keep the run up, since it met the requirements of the proof policy at the time (c'mon guys, it's not like he used codes or anything... lol), but making a rule that save stating to reset is not allowed anymore. I mean, how many top runs here have save-state resets? Or even in other games that recognize emulator as an actual thing? Besides, you can still speed up the framerate to go through the reset (because it's LOLEMU).

Also, for the proof mods here: if you're allowing emulators, release a guide on how to configure it to be acceptable in speedruns. It still hasn't happened, but it would be really ¤¤cked up when a console user bitches about getting his any% bopped by someone like elvencloud or vinopoiatti by less than 10 seconds, since their emulators speed up the shrines movement insanely. (even though people would obviously only bitch about vino, gee, wonder why huh)

Is there a glitch where runners can verify their runs without being moderators?

http://www.speedrun.com/muppets

I'm not sure how much this forum is used, but can we compile all the information on the pocketstation stuff and how it works? And, you know, all possible version differences...

From what I understood it "permanently" fuses cards or something like that, but I'm still clueless.

Edit: I found this website from a 5yo gamefaqs thread and translated on chrome on how the thing works: http://www8.atwiki.jp/yuugiou_fuuin/pages/34.html

It seems that you can get BEUD and Gate Guardian, and that those were not in the manual. I'm not sure how legit it is.

More useful threads (apparently people who ACTUALLY HAVE the pocketstation can only confirm that you can get beud and GG, so don'tk know why the NG+ rules do not allow them) http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/3085/t1475980-japanese-official-strategy-guide/ http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/3085/t1501192-which-card-should-get-if-win-card-lottery/