Hi Overcomplicated and anyone else that is interested,

I consulted with the Mod, Beardstrength, about the points situation in the rankings. I mentioned how there's a Tecmo Super Bowl category that is based upon Rushing Yards. They used the Game Time column that defines the rankings by putting the ranking as "1 min, 0 seconds" for 1st, "2 min, 0 seconds" for 2nd, etc. Then, they use a variable for the Yards and that shows on the surface.

The Tecmo Super Bowl Category, for reference: https://www.speedrun.com/tecmo_super_bowl?h=Single_Game_Rush_Yds_-_Individual_Player&x=wk6pyjxd

Beard and I think (and Beard has already added them in the Low% categories) that a Time Variable and Points Variable be displayed for context. We submit times correctly in the game time field and Time Variable field, and your points in the points variable field. The mod will then modify the "Game Time" to the rank so that it positions the submission correctly in the rankings. I don't expect a ton of submissions so this shouldn't get too complicated.

If we get to a theoretical lowest points total, or just a tie in general for points between two submitters, then the game time will be the tie breaker that determines rank.

It looks like the Category Rules need to be updated for each to state that rankings are based upon lowest points, then game times in case of a tie breaker. We can mention submitting the time in the two time fields, and the points in the points field.

Does anybody have any concerns or questions?

Will get it right next time. Thanks Lack.

Yea man. Beardstrength is close to sub-2 on sum of best. We can figure the tricks out and get it there. Let's go get it!

Thanks @Beardstrength. With future runners of either category in mind, and the contention of the framecounts with the abovementioned submissions, let alone however many we may see in the future, I reiterate my suggestion that we revert from counting milliseconds to just counting seconds. It reconciles all current submissions and the only questions would really come up with runs that barely break a second barrier, and that would only be a concern at the podium level really. In short, 99% of current runs and future submissions are resolved.

My opinion, which includes trusting the integrity of @RyuHayabusa89 as a runner.

1. Beard and Crit optimized Any% on console at 10.067. Assuming Beard believe that Ryu's run is visibly an optimized run, we update the time to 10.067 to tie WR and make some notes about the frame count for posterity.

2. Regarding the Any% NOOB run, @Beardstrength has confirmed skipped frames in both my and Ryu's run, though the subset he reviewed appeared to have counterbalancing frame delays. The option is either to invalidate all emulator runs or keep them. I lean toward keeping them. This game will never have runners again if console is required.

There is an alternate option that almost resolves this completely, though it requires consensus.

3. We remove milliseconds, which makes runs tied if within the same second. Not a perfect solution regarding who has the truly fastest run, but it is optimal in that framecounts are less likely to be contested or contentious, should this game pick up steam with more runners.

I use mesen for emulator, streamlabs/obs to capture the video, and Handbrake to cut the video. Like beard said, perhaps a couple frames were skipped but then a frame delay balanced them out. I don't know. But I would scrutinize it more if it were closer to the wr. Do you record each run by itself so it does not need to be edited after the run, or do you record a bunch of runs in one video and then edit down to a single run?

Ryu, what do you use to clip your videos? I used to lose frames until I started using Handbrake. I make sure it clips at 60 fps and I never lose frames anymore.

Great work dude!

Hi Manticor, I planned to submit an NES run for 10K (1st), 20K (2nd), and 30K (2nd). I found it fun to play for points. I don't intend to play for Any%. You can see that the most activity for this game was in the points categories. I suggest leaving them there. Keeping them in miscellaneous is fine with me. Thanks!

Note for future runners. Check your fps. I was having trouble getting a good time. I compared my run to others and the music was going much slower and i was leaving the first screen even a 1/2 second behind. Turns out mesen wqs set to default region, which this game translated as PAL (50 fps). Once i set it to ntsc instead of auto, i was all set. So check your emulator and the region setting (should be ntsc) and display your fps (should be 60) and you'll be in a level playing field.

I'm stumped! >D

Locking this thread. I think we're all satisfied with this decision.

And if anyone is able to test, that would be great. I do want to point out that I have save states in between each stage and at least the slorbs will go in different directions from the same save state.

Thanks Beardstrength. For what it's worth, we were chatting with CutterCross in either T1shero's or McFly's stream the other day, and they said there were multiple factors and random algorithms that change the RNG of each stage in real time. That includes any movements on the screens in between stages. T1shero/McFly, can you point CutterCross to this forum to offer some notes on that?

Also for what it's worth from a subjective perspective, if we keep the resets as a requirement, I won't be running it anymore, but if we remove them, I will run it again. The 20 seconds intro screen in between runs gives me too much time to sit in my frustration. If I can just move to the next run, I'll be motivated to get to my final goal. Not sure if others feel the same way, but figured I'd offer my emotional perspective beyond the obvious and appropriate (and more important) technical conversation.

^ meaning any runs submitted between 11:30am EST on 7/1/22 until the decision is finalized can be submitted without resets. The run must show you transitioning out of the last run (i.e. dying) so we can tell it's not a save state. If you complete a run, you are better off resetting because you start the next loop with the same health you left the last run with.

I chatted with McFly in his stream and he said T1hsero is good with it. Let's say at this point that resets are no longer necessary tentatively and I'll change the rules once Beard has weighed in.

thx guys. I'd like beardstrength amd t1ishero to weigh in as they have equal weight in this in my mind.

Hey all,

Recently, I've been playing Balloon Fight, where you don't reset because of bad RNG on the first run post-reset. So you just start over after you die... well... I just found this in UA. I think we reconvene the rules so we SKIP THAT DAMN INTRO!!!!!!

Hi all, I modified the "start frame" rule to say the following "-Timer starts when pressing start on the intro screen and the screen goes black.".

Also, for 100% and OOB%, I'm essentially using what Joe put for the final frame, which is when I see the scene with the cave display.

Any% is a little more goofy. When you leave the screen on stage 1, it FADES to black, then shows the Nes Maker first intro screen, then quickly paints the first stage onto the screen, then paints the cave screen 3 times. On the third time, it makes the game over music. Instead of worrying about when to clunk, we should clunk where T1shero and I have, which is when it fades to black in the beginning. It is a literal fade, so I figure the final frame is when it is completely black.