would like to hear any thoughts against this proposition. to me it seems the fairest way to keep the leaderboards integrity.

I think the way most people are leaning is to keep emu and console runs together as long as a controller is used. I think making a separate category for keyboard inputs is the way to go. And to add the rule for emu users that use moonkicks in their run they need video proof of them using a controller for it not to be put into the keyboard inputs category.

I don't think anyone thinks you cheated Luc. I think what Pres is saying is if you had submitted all of your PB's this discussion would have happened sooner. I'm not positive that is true though given how fast you got the game down. What you've done is super impressive and no one can take that from you. We're just trying to figure out what is fair given the constructs of the original game and how it is played.

That would tackle the issue more directly I suppose.

I'd never tried moonkicks on keyboard before, so I thought I'd give it a go now. It's night and day compared to a dpad. Its much, much easier.

But here's my issue with emulator and this game right now. I can bind W to jump. E to jump and right, Q to jump and left so I can preform moonkicks 100% of the time, whenever I want. Technically you can do the same on an emu controller and bind up+right to the R button on a SNES gamepad and up+left to L, allowing for 100% moonkick accuracy.

Because of this, the only way I know of that we can verify a legit run is with a camera on the controller as you play.

If we decided to go the route of separating EMU and console into different categories, it would still be unfair to those on emulator using a gamepad. We would essentially be forcing them into using a keyboard if they want a top time. And as slack very smartly said, "If we emulate the game shouldn't we emulate the controller as well?" I think yes. A controller should be needed to run this game.

So maybe we do need to just straight up ban keyboard from being used at all. And any emulator players with a time under 3:40 should have an extra verification step of needing a cam on the controller while playing the game. I know some people want the rules to fall under all runs, but sometimes I think it makes sense to only have the strictest rules for the top times, or we end up not being inclusive enough for people who start running the game.

I'd like to start a discussion on weather or not keyboard users should be allowed for Kung Fu speedruns.

Currently a lot of the strats in the game require moonkicks, which is a double frame perfect input that requires an UP+R input one frame after pressing left. This is quite hard to do on a controller/dpad and we run the risk of accidentally hitting down to crouch for a frame or two before performing the moonkick, which will throw off the game's RNG. Keyboard users, however, can perform moonkicks more consistently and cleanly without worry of accidentally hitting down, and can therefore get them at a much higher success rate. Some people feel this gives keyboard users an unfair advantage when playing the game over console users playing on original hardware.

A proposition is up to ban all keyboard users from getting a time accepted under 3:40.00 and anyone using emulator submitting a time under 3:40.00 will need a camera showing their inputs on an actual USB controller. I'd like to open up this discussion to the community to see what you have to say on the topic.

that's probably the oldest rule in the book, actually! My bull 2 PB is also lost forever due to no recording.

I have not played it on VC but I think salt has maybe(?) As far as I know the only difference is input delay so there'd be no reason you can't run it.

I know Punch Out and MTPO are essentially the same game, but I feel they should be separate (I could see lumping them both together so that the MTPO page also features Punch Out though). Also, aside from input delay I'm not sure Punch Out would need all those categories. We don't separate console from emulator so why do it for other platforms unless there's a fps issue like the PAL version.