North Carolina, USAWe are going to try getting the IL records soon and can't quite pin down when we should actually cut the frames to get the final time. Using the current No Mercy record as an example, we can't seem to find a way to reach the same 10:37 time as was submitted utilizing that video. Cutting at various points including removing the entirety of the scoreboards, the time still comes out slower than what was submitted.
I figured just the loads (when the little logo shows in the corner) would be the mark to remove at but that turns up a time significantly slower. That's when it really should be removed, anyway, as the scoreboard is not part of the actual loading process and is part of the game.
Perhaps it was timed via demos?
A good place to start may be my speedrunning tutorial videos, which, now that you've gotten me thinking of it, I finally just submitted its link, see the sidebar on the left, in the guides section. It covers everything solo-wise (which largely carries into co-op) along with more info you'll need to know for speedrunning. I still need to get a co-op one up and should probably work on a solo update with some new things that were found, but it will give you a good base to start from. http://www.speedrun.com/l4d2/guide/z4qtc
There are other people looking for partners around the forums as well, like Daroot Leafstorm here: http://www.speedrun.com/l4d2/thread/kp2t0
If you have any other questions feel free to catch me on Twitch and I will be glad to answer them, I stream nearly daily at the moment. https://www.twitch.tv/themaster627
That is a relief! Thank you, Ihsoy, it is much appreciated. I'll keep in mind to contact you if there is anything else we need, and do let us know how the discussion with flicky goes, then it would just need to be figured out who to make mods.
Thanks for the luck, we'll know in October if anything has been accepted. It has been three years since L4D1 was last featured so that is probably the most likely candidate right now, and hopefully a re-showing of L4D2 as well. We'll see.
Since flicky is the one that keeps logging in, I am now going to directly message him on both Twitch and YouTube hoping he gets notifications for one of them. It's funny, his offline wallpaper on Twitch is of Zoey hanging from something with a horde of zombies under her. You'd think he'd be checking around here more often?
I agree, clearly something needs to be shaken up with the moderators. If they are up to it, L4D2 moderators are on top of things so that would be fine (Darkossz and Deln both respond quickly), or any other active runners, it doesn't really matter as long as somebody is actually checking.
The AGDQ submissions opened today and will be available for a week, and we would like to have a proper run submitted (rather than our current awful temporary one) for the committee to see while they are making selections. It has been a little while since the submission and indeed it seems to take quite a long time around here for review, so hopefully posting about it will get it seen.
I'll message directly if a few more days go by without any activity. I do see flicky was on five hours ago.
Hmm, I did send it to your Twitch on August 5th, I see the message in my outbox. I will try again just in case something went wrong, and I made a few mistakes in that message too that I fixed, so oops!
Hopefully that sorts it out for you. I have no idea about running it on Linux, though.
Yeah... who rejected this? Rules don't need to be adhered to so closely for a case like this, we can use discretion for obvious changes that don't affect gameplay in any way. Now, if there were sound mods on Specials or something that would make much more sense since it could potentially make them easier to hear, but a few weapon sounds are no big deal at all. Please reinstate this run, and maybe add some exceptions for weapon sound mods for the future?
The only way I can see weapon sound mods mattering is if they are purposely made silent so enemies are easier to hear? But then Closed Captions exist anyway... that would be the only case I might support a rejection.
While we're at it, I also feel the item radar should explicitly be banned as well in the rules just for clarity, because currently saying HUD mods are allowed would technically enable its use but I would argue strongly that it is an unfair advantage. Just another idea while on the subject.
Also, I may have beaten this run tonight. I admit nothing. Cough.
Yeah, check out the message I sent to you on Twitch, then. It will get you started in installing 2.0.0.8 from square one, no 2.0.0.7 files or anything else necessary.
Hmm, do you mean you have 2.0.0.8 now or 2.0.2.7?
Either way I was working on sending you a message so I sent it out anyway in case 2.0.0.8 or extra instructions were needed.
I just sent you 2.0.0.8 on Twitch. I noticed that you submitted a Last Man on Earth run, note that the mutation is not available in the old version of the game so if you want to continue to do LMOE runs you'll have to stick with the newest version.
I don't have 2.0.2.7 myself.
Guys. Really. I was not entirely serious when I made this thread. It was just for funsies.
I agree loading times are silly, and that comes from the aforementioned master who is currently benefiting quite a lot competitively from their being included. I love you, my precious little Solid State Drives! Just for measurement, I'll paste my loading times again that I tested a while ago. These are taken from a fresh launch loading into Dead Center and rotating maps by noclipping to each saferoom.
Newest: 11.03, 6.90, 7.00, 6.26
2.0.0.8: 8.03, 3.33, 3.73, 2.16
On the old one I load Atrium in 2.16 seconds. I mean... really now.
To add to the couple of games Canterlott listed, Alien Swarm has two columns to submit times with and without loads as well, and that is a game I currently have the records for so I have experience with removing loads from a run. For individual level RTA's, the method I worked out there was to cut the frames specifically on when the game's HUD appears and disappears which isn't hard at all, you just need Avidemux (in my case) and a little direction. For the full-game run, it's a bit different but still easy. I've already utilized this idea in L4D2 when my splits were right on the edge between seconds, cutting where the HUD appears and disappears which seems consistent. Loading between levels would probably be about the same, that I haven't tried.
The only problem is this does create a bit of overhead for the individual runner as they will need to do this before submitting and a lot of people just have their Twitch stream and throw it up there. In this case perhaps they should just take the extra hit in time? I'm not sure, really, but I agree that, now that the times submitted are quite competitive, this advantage is about to be magnified tenfold if any runners try to come in and seriously compete now. It may not have been a problem when the times were slow anyway, but it will be soon. You would also wonder what to do about co-op timing, to that I'd say it should resume the moment the host (or first player) finishes their load, which will require their perspective to be recorded (me, in the case of our runs).
Considering not many runs end up being submitted it's also possible for moderators to download the video and grab the time without loads themselves, but of course it should fall on the runner to take that job. Although it is still not very hard or time-consuming, really.
The real problem is, assuming this new rule was put into effect, what is done about the runs already up? Now converting those would be quite time-consuming. I'd happily update my own if that is enough... I guess it is? It's kind of the starting point anyway, updating the other runs probably wouldn't change the leaderboards around much at the moment.
Honestly, I feel like kicking should be allowed specifically in solo runs considering solo is a made-up category anyway. I get disallowing it for co-op runs to keep consistency. L4D1 leaderboards don't have a solo-specific category so there isn't really any crossover here, and a lot of runs already on YouTube kicked the bots.
To be clear, I like that there is a solo category in L4D2, I think it is important to attract more runners because it isn't easy to get a good team together to run it co-op. It's also great practice, I feel I am a much better runner right now for the solo runs as it trains you to handle commons and specials on your own, leading to getting stuck less when you are with other players.
As for killing the bots, yeah, that invulnerability is quite annoying. There is a period in the beginning and end where you can deal damage, so one thing I try to do sometimes (like in Dark Carnival) is hurt at least the first bot a lot without downing them, then switch to the other bots and finish them all off much closer together before they have time to attempt a pickup. Also, if you do down one right away and manage to switch to the bot initiating pickup next, you can usually get them in time. Otherwise, down the bot that isn't picking up first and/or hurt the bot more that you've downed while you wait for the invulnerability period to end, then down that one last. You'll get a feel for it eventually.
[quote=Derpduck]Technically, it's a cheated run so... [/quote]
In my heart it will always be legitimate. :(
[quote=FoggyTV]But in my opinion to this 2x speed category, It would be nice to have this as a category but I feel it is just unnecessary to add because any person casual player can do this and it just defeats the purpose of what a speedrun is.[/quote]
Well, I mean, plenty of games create categories out of rules the community makes up because it adds another interesting layer of replayability. That exists here already with Last Man on Earth, or even the solo category in a game meant to be run co-op. Look at Super Mario 64 as well, they have all the way down to a 0-star category just to utilize some weird and difficult glitches.
If anything, running it like this is magnifying skill a lot more than running the game normally. Every single common is very dangerous now since it is so difficult to react to them, and that isn't even considering the specials yet. Every trick is harder, every bit of movement more difficult to be precise with because overcompensating is much easier. Of course, I never really intended to actually get this as a category. We were really just trying it for fun, but it's still interesting to discuss. Speaking of trying things for fun...
Sequel to the first video, we did a Main Campaigns run like this! We cheated a little in Atrium. Just a little bit. The rest was all legit, though. The run ended up around 45 minutes. Next time.... 3x speed!?!?
I wasn't entirely serious, although I do have to say it is far more entertaining than Last Man on Earth, at least. If anything serious were to be changed on the leaderboards it would be nice to have a difficulty column so Expert-only runs could exist (not a new category, a column same as version number), but that is probably another conversation I'm trailing off on now.
This was definitely worth the go, it really is something very different once you try it... I am wondering if it might even improve reaction time after a while because let me tell you, normal time feels like slow motion after playing like this for a while!
I'll let the video speak for itself. Good times.
An intriguing idea but it would have to be carefully crafted to be identical to the old version since there are many more differences besides exploit fixes. AI pathing was also updated at some point after 2.0.0.8, I think? So bots may behave a bit differently, and probably much more exists. There are other things like Mall made easier, which would need to be reverted specifically if you can figure out the differences between the two versions. Oh, and the loading times too... 2.0.0.8 gives me some ¤huge¤ loading time gains compared to newest, so if loading times with the mod were still as slow as newest is I would have to skip using it by default, unfortunately.
That said, if running under the assumption that everything important which contributes to gameplay in any way could be made identical to 2.0.0.8, and loads were alright, I would massively support this idea as being able to run it without terribly-timed runtime crashes alone would be well worth it (I've lost runs that way!), not to mention the fact that 2.0.0.8 is absolutely vital to compete at the highest level and currently works on a complicated system of messaging and torrents right now which is terrible for new runners wanting to get into it.
I would, however, not support any different categories or differentiating these modded runs in any way, if that were the case I would rather just spend time running the "main" categories, if you get what I mean. They would need to be submitted the same as 2.0.0.8 is now, so that would be up to better minds than I to figure out if and how it is exploitable and if it can be thoroughly reverted.
[quote=mr.deagle]What "exploit blocks" are there besides player clips and pushers?[/quote]
Two off the top of my head are that boat which blocks a nice jesus spot in Swamp Fever 1, and the box on the table that blocks the jesus spot in Hard Rain finale. I've noticed other weird things too, like a forklift in Dark Carnival 2 outside of the med cabinet room before the ladder leading to the slide, it's there in the old version but not the new version. There is probably a lot more like that.
Ever find it to be a bit convoluted to bind 12 different keys to vote for the next campaign in an All Campaigns run? I sure did! Who easily has 12 different keys available to bind, anyway? I don't have one of those fancy schmancy mice with a million buttons, so I sure didn't! Enter the handy single-key campaign voting cycler script! Condense those keys you have to annoyingly reach across your keyboard for (or for you million-button mice users move your thumb slightly for) into just a single, far more convenient key. Available now in Tools under the Resources section!
If you have any questions about this script or comments on it in general, feel free to ask away. We may still add interesting features if any are thought up.
Luckily that is very simple. You can launch a server using the map command while at the menu (like map c1m1_hotel), and then the other people connecting will need your IP and connect by using "connect <your IP here>". Note that the player hosting should need port 27015 open for the others to get in.
Questions are no problem, that's what the forums are for!
