ChileI did a 100% One alignment test run (skippable cutscenes) to add to the discussion. I copy my video description here:
"This is my first attemp of 100% One Alignment (skipping cutscenes and all that).
I had to go back for Pargon Codex on Paul. I also lost 9 or 10 minutes on the Restore for Alex End skip. There's a lot of sub-optimal movement and menus in the run but, on the other hand, I got modified Silver Skip and BG Skip first try, so still solid gameplay.
My criteria for 100% is getting all the things that remain in your pause menu until the end of the game, that is, until the last fight against Pious. This includes:
- All Runes, including Mantorok.
- All Codices.
- All Spell Scrolls.
- Enchanted Gladius.
- All possible Autopsies (Trapper, M. Zombie, Zombie, Horror, Bonethief and Guardian for One Alignment).
- The Mix and Mode options in the inventory.
There's a couple things that I'm still not entirely sure should be included or not, these are:
- Alex weapons: Normal Gladius, Revolver and Shotgun.
- Creating every single Spell (level 3, 5 and 7).
- Having all the Cinematics on the menu.
About the weapons: So far, Gladius and Revolver cannot be avoided on the route. The Shotgun, on the other hand, can be skipped since we finish Pious with the Enchanted Gladius. I'm indifferent to include the Shotgun, since it only takes a couple seconds.
About the Spells: We can beat the game without creating most of the different level spells. This is kind of a grey area, it only adds the bigger circle option in your spells. Creating every single spell is a lot of extra menu, but still not that big of a deal, just pretty annoying.
About the Cinematics: I personally think they shouldn't be mandatory, because the game gives you all the Cinematics of your current alignment once you beat Pious (you'll see all of them in the menu in your next playthrough if you carry the info, even the ones you skipped). Another important note in favor of not requiring them is that is actually impossible to get "The Eternal Darkness Prevails" before finishing the game, since you can't save after getting a Game Over."
I need some opinions regarding 100%, please try to give them either as a possible runner of the category or as a viewer of it.
So far I'm conflicted choosing between two options for the category. I want to give emphasis that I don't care that much about the "real" definition, and I care more about what runners and viewers/followers of the category think.
Option A: "True 100%" The idea here is to beat the game 3 times from scratch with an empty memory card and get the Mantorok ending at the end. Pros:
- It's the most "legit" definition, since you go from having nothing to unlocking the secret ending (and watching it at the end).
- Even while it's pretty long, the ending cutscenes are in a good spot to take a small break in case you need it.
- You can show cool stuff for all three alignments of the game.
- You can get all the autopsies in the game. Cons:
- It's pretty long, I estimate between 7 and 8 hours.
- You cannot skip most cutscenes since it's not NG+.
- You have to beat the game 3 times. It adds variety, but can also just be annoying.
Option B: "One take 100%" Here we would start with a completed file (just like on Any%) and choose not to carry your gameplay information into the next playthrough. This way we can get all the possible autopsies on the allignment. Pros:
- You can skip all cutscenes, so the gameplay rhythm will feel just as fast as Any%.
- It shouldn't be a long category, around 2 hours or so.
- Resets don't hurt that much because you don't have to re-watch all cutscenes. Cons:
- There's no way to get all the autopsies on just one alignment, so we'll just get all the possible ones.
- We don't get to show the 3 alignments of the game.
- There's no Mantorok secret ending before the credits, because we chose not to carry information in order to do the autopsies (this can technically be solved using a special savefile, but that seems weird to me).
Those are the two options I think have the best pros vs cons. There's also a hybrid take of doing 3 playthoughs on NG+ to skip cutscenes. While that allows for faster gameplay, it also means you need to play more than 6 hours non stop, I personally don't like that.
For both options, this is the list of things I'm considering for a 100% run:
- All runes, including Mantorok.
- All Codices and Scrolls.
- All Autopsies (or all possible ones).
- Enchanted Gladius.
- (maybe?) Make all the Spells (3, 5 and 7 versions).
Emulator runs are allowed as far as you use a modern version of dolphin, just DON'T use 5.0 stable or any older stable version.
Old versions of Dolphin have faster loading times than wii, so it's unfair to use them. Modern versions on the other hand have loading times very similar (and just slightly slower) than console, so they are allowed.
Is there a version 3 for Dreamcast? I thought Dreamcast was only version 1 and 2
Idk, it just bugs me out. It shouldn't be the case but what if there's a glitch or exploit or tiny microscopic timing difference as a result of the different menu. I feel like mod territory is always complicated as we don't have a way to predict what might happen. I would allow it in different categories just because the original release doesn't have enough tools to support those categories.
I also have my problems with mods (even while this game isn't "official"), and that's why I wouldn't allow it in Normal Mode leaderboards.
That said, I think it's a good way to implement Extra Mode and IL's, considering the original game doesn't have too many options for those.
Some of the intended ways to implement these categories without mods would be:
- Playing IL's from savefiles: This works good with resets, but you'll need to press escape everytime you successfully beat the level in order to don't lose the savefile (because otherwise it will save on the next level). Also there's just 3 vanilla savefiles, and there's a total of 12 levels (6 + 6 Extra Mode), so you'll need to make new savefiles every now and then.
- Defining Extra Mode as "beat the game from level 1 to 12": I personally think this would be a hassle, It's just any% + more levels, I've never been a fan of categories being too similar.
- Playing Extra Mode from a savefile that starts on level 7 (level 1 Extra): It has the problem that reseting is a pain after the first level. If you exit with escape after level 1 Extra, you'll lose your file, so you either have to make/hack a new file or close the game entirely without saving.
@Sivart0 just made a mod of the game that allows to play Extra Mode (level 7 to 12) and every Individual Level from the title menu.
Should we make categories for this mod? What do you think?
I'm fine allowing the mod for extra categories, although I think I would prefer to keep Normal Mode with the vanilla version only.
I put an invitation to the MS-DOS Speedruns Discord server in the Discord tab of this page.
I uploaded the last version (1.2) of the Mario & Luigi Autosplitter, you can find it in the Resourses page.
The use of the Autosplitter is not mandatory but still highly recommended, as you wont need to retime runs.
You can find all the details on how it works in the ReadMe inside the .rar file.
Then I'll put both as an option in the rules.
Is everyone alright with 15.000 cycles or do we allow max cycles?
Hello everyone. After talking a lot with @AlphaTemp we came out with the following ruleset for Normal Mode:
(Every line after a "-" is how the ruleset will look like, and every line in brackets "[ ]" are comments about why we want that ruleset)
Timing method
-
Timer starts at the first frame the player gets control over Mario.
-
The Status Line has to be active at the start of Level 1.
[This is the same frame where the Status Line shows on the screen, see here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/18R5YDpUNOjHZRj0Z_8QkmLendraDthBg/view?usp=sharing] [Because of this, every run has to have the Status Line active and visible at least at the start of Level 1 to be valid] [Even while the autosplitter can do all this for you, we as moderators need a consistent way to retime runs in case someone is not using the autosplitter (and for old runs)] [If you don't have the Status Line active, you can activate it from the options menu or press the "S" Key while playing]
- Timer ends at the first frame the player loses control over Mario.
[This happens one frame before you see Mario a couple pixels inside the final pipe of Level 6, see here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rHhCjIUmTlcNuSGUanzuiQsT_vus8wAe/view?usp=sharing]
Emulator Rules
- All runs have to be done on DosBox 0.74.
[This is because this is the most consistent emulator so far. Also, the autosplitter only works with this version of DosBox]
- Use 15.000 cycles in DosBox configuration.
[This is a reasonable value that keeps the game at good speed]
I'm interested in being a Moderator for this game.
I have experience moderating another DOS game called Hocus Pocus (see https://www.speedrun.com/hocus ).
I also made an autosplitter for DosBox 0.74 that was tested by @Sivart0 . We think it gives the most consistent timing method for the rules.
Hope to see your reply @AlphaTemp cheers, Pandora
My guess is that it refers to beating the game once and then doing it again with the speed boost earned at the end of level 6.
