Washington, USAThe difference between a run a year ago and now is the difference of less than a minute, so that probably works fine.
And may I be the first to say, welcome to our community! Any of the runs that are within the last few months should be fine to review: the newest WR will be very advanced but a great starting point for what could be attainable, I recently put up a run that uses some more basic versions of the same strats. Feel free to post on the forums all you want, or we have a Discord server that we run that has more active people on it for better communication.
The most important thing though about any speed game is to beat it once, then again. A few more times couldn't hurt. This has to be a game that you A. like enough to play and B. like enough to play for many many hours when runs last less than ten minutes (once you start learning it of course).
Feel free to respond to this thread with any questions you have as well :)
Try that
Scratch that, here: discord.gg/GcuxY , follow that link once you download Discord and that'll get you into the community chat.
I'll send you an invite via message in a moment, and yes you do need to jump to make that shot, there's an awesome tutorial I'll link you on how to do it.
Hey Cry, have you joined us on the Discord server yet? You'd get answers on there far faster than on here :)
Also, I'm not totally understanding your question, but if you're talking about when you collide with that wall on LM and jump from there, then yes that jump you do on that wall is needed, at least I can't do it any other way,
(Notepad so pasting might be chunky. Will fix as necessary.)
So I was doing the ship thing for the umpteenth time since my hand has decided it doesn't like to play the game anymore, so I decided to mess around at the start to see if I could find a faster way to kill the ship.
I found one way that might have been faster but I wasn't sure, so I recorded myself doing the way, and compared that to the normal way we are doing now, more or less the perfect execution of it.
Link to the video comparing the two ways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=nTH6lmCk8E0
Before I go into any of that, we need to do a little math first. Now my recording equipment is rather low-end, so every frame had some jumpiness to it. Here's a recording of fourteen frames, or the amount of frames it takes for the player ship to go from the first moment of being able to move till when the text box pops up stopping its movement.
(These numbers were taken based off my more or less perfect execution of how to kill our ship now). 3 16 08 (Everything is 3 16 so will drop those for the remainder) 13 16 21 24 27 32 37 41 46 51 54 58 62
Now the 58 and the 62 frame didn't actually have any recorded movement in them, so we are given a range of two numbers to work from: 3.1-3.5 ms a frame.
Now how far do we move then per frame?
Here's the distance, in units given by A Ruler For Windows, which supposedly tracks pixels on screen. For these purposes, they will be refered to as units, but they most likely pertain to pixels. Each distance pertains to the frames mentioned above.
0 20 50 70 105 120 160 175 205 225 255 275 310 310
Also note that these numbers are also approximations within 1-2 units of their actual values. If we average those out, we get approximately 27-29 units. Dividing those numbers by the approximations of ms per frame above, we get a range about 8.3-8.7 units/ms, so approx 8.5 units/ms. NOTE, this number could be slightly off as I had another measurement earlier at 6.9-7.1 having approx 7 units/ms being another number, however in this instance the semantics are not truly necessary since the end points should not be any different. A comparrison shall be given using both results.
That being said, lets look at some values then.
First the normal way, the way we currently do it.
3 16 08 First Frame avail
3 16 62 Text Pop Up ~~ Roughly .54 seconds Actually going in and measuring movement stopped exactly at .5 seconds, which means half a minute to move. This can be proven in the code if we have access to that.
Textbox frames then
3 18 46 - 3 18 50 Regain Movement ~~ 1.84 seconds until regained movement, this is given that rough estimate due to recording issues.
3 20 46 Death Screen
.54 seconds 2 seconds more or less to get to death 2.54 seconds
Now, the .04 seconds given there relates to the values above, from the 58 frame to the 62 frame. No movement is captured there, so the true value lies from 2.5-2.54. On the low end, 2.5 seconds RTA to kill yourself using this way.
Now, lets look at the math done my new way.
2 43 54 First Control (First frame available)
2 44 04 Text Pops Up
2 45 92 Regain Control of Movement ~~1.88 seconds to regain control so .04 seconds variation
2 47 54 Death
.50 seconds ~~.04 variation as seen in the last numbers. 1.62 seconds to kill self 2.12 seconds total movement ~~ Roughly since screen grab ain't too fast
So just over 2.1 seconds to kill yourself this way. One thing that had to be accounted for was variation in how long it took to exit screens and such, so theres about a .04-.05 delay that needs to be taken into account.
Other information to note: I showed in another video which is linked here: that if you move up and down during the starting phase, it does NOT affect your x movement. The most you can move during the starting half a second was calculated at 397.5 units, which is basically 400 units.
So as shown above and as can be seen in the video, it is approximately .4 seconds faster to kill yourself this way. Note, this is not perfect and can be potentially done faster, and the way I did it was not quite perfect either. However, it is at least .2 seconds faster to do this.
In honor of how little time you'll save executing a maneuver that I find difficult to do, I call this move the Kappakaze.
Gotcha, thanks! I've been finding it a bit easier for myself to get real time so seeing if i want to do either way for IGT.
So is this trick faster to do with or w/o pause buffering? Anybody know?
Cool cool! If you have any other questions feel free to ask anytime on these forums, someone is almost always available to answer (pretty active community).
So you want to get into speedrunning then? Well I can relate to that, as this was the first serious speedrunning game I ever did. The game isn't too long, it has a lot of tech and skill involved, and I have not minded putting fifty plus hours into this game, ten of which were this week alone just grinding out new tech. When you're picking a game, the most important question to ask yourself is: can I see myself playing this game for potentially hundreds of hours not really doing anything new?
At the end of the day, best way to get into speedrunning a game is to just do it. Record a run of one of our categories and submit it! I personally record by broadcasting on twitch and saving a highlight to submit. There's no pressure, and everybody starts somewhere. Heck, I'm towards the bottom of the Any% IGT list, but after my run tonight I bet I'll jump up a good ten ranks easily :P
EDIT: The second post in this thread is from the current WR holder before he began running, it's kinda cute haha
DOUBLE EDIT: Which that could be inspiration as he has been the on/off record holder of the category for a long time. Just takes practice!
Honestly I just through my time in a calculator and it gave me that number. My understanding is that PST is seven hours behind UTC, but I keep seeing weird numbers. To make it easy I'll just assume it's 0800 for myself and if it ends up being 0900 I'll just be early,
If we're basing this off of IGT and there isn't a huge, if any difference in time by pausing, then that's a feature implemented by the devs. Dunno if anybody caught the glitchless run of OOT at SGDQ, but their reasons for why it was glitchless is what I'll apply to this: if pausing doesn't affect the IGT, then doing it over and over again is legit for an IGT based category since it acts that way purposefully. Just my 2 cents in case it helps.
Oh really? I didn't know that, good to know!
You've always been an Any% runner so I don't expect ya to mix it up :P But having seen stagnation in categories since I was last here, I'm sure there will be some people interested in a new category. Thanks for expecting to participate in the very least! :)
Sounds good, thank you!
Oh yeah I remember that glitch being found, in fact I think I have a run on the Any% board of me doing that glitch.
I haven't thought about the idea of All Achievements having a version without getting all collectibles. I am a bit confused about the idea, since the only reason I collect the collectibles during my run is there are achievements that correspond to them being gotten. The only thing I can think of that could affect speed with collectibles would be that you could potentially skip getting the upgraded ship in this category, however I don't know if it would be faster, nor do I know if it is possible for Diplomat & HAPTKEYM to carry over between resets (talk to the dude that gives the upgraded ship and kill the lone enemy near him). If they did carry over, that would take probably a minute off the run and warrant some slight rerouting.
Anyways, could you please elaborate on how we could go about having two versions of All Achievements, one with and one w/o collectibles?
1600 UTC (0800 PST for those on the west coast of the US) works more than fine for myself, if everybody else can agree to this time (or later works as well, I know a large bunch of the regulars are based in Europe so if we can determine a time that works for everybody wanting to participate).
I haven't quite decided on what I think the rules should be on achievements. There are some that if you progress too far in the game you can no longer finish the achievement (HAPTKEYM, Diplomat, The 11th Cell, et al.), while some that if you take too long become impossible to complete (Swiftest Success). This category strikes me as that of a high risk category, in that if you are not careful you may end up needing to reset the run. The rules as I have laid out state that the only objective for completion of the run is to obtain all achievements, not necessarily that you have to do it in one run. Having multiple runs to obtain them all IMO goes against the original idea of the run, since proving that it is possible to get it in one run without too much difficulty warrants the run to be contained within one completion.
In my run of this category, I did skip one named room since 107% does not specifically say you need to visit all named rooms, just 87 unique rooms. I do not think that it is necessary to visit every single named room since, without resorting to any form of cheating it is possible to get the achievement. Other opinions on that matter are more than welcome.
I have never posted in the discord before, nor do I know where it is. I'll look around to find it and if I can and there are no objections I can advertise the run there as well.
Hey all, in the recent sticky of pilot runs, I made a proposal for what I like to call All Achievements (thanks to BeardedBusker for the name!).
In this run, your main goal is to get every single achievement in one run, with resets allowed. I currently have a path I take that allows for this to be possible, but I am confident that there are a multitude of paths available to complete it.
I also noticed, after my year-long expenditure from this community, that we have at least doubled in size since I last participated. I think that's really awesome that we have grown so much! I'd like to have us keep growing as well, so I want to advertise that I am currently sitting on 7 extra copies of the game that I would like to give out to players who currently don't have the game in order to invite more members to our community. Now I am not too aware of what steps I can take in order to distribute said games, minus going on /r/speedruns and advertising there that more members are wanted (unless we already have too many, although I doubt that is the case?).
Either way, I want to propose a race to the members of this community. I don't know how many can participate in a race on speedrunslive, but on Friday, July 22nd, I'd like to race any number of people in this category, in order to gauge interest on whether or not people would want to run it in the first place. To make things more interesting, I offer as a prize for the winner of the race (or if need be brackets) any game under $5 on Steam (I'd do more but that's all from card sales :P ). If anybody is interested in said race, please comment in this thread, so I can organize how many people would want to participate.
Take care all, and if you have any questions about the category, ask away on this thread or feel free to check it out in the Pilot Runs sticky as well.
First off, All Achievements is more than a fine name for the category and having that difference in the usage of % will make it stand out as well.
Secondly, let's apply the same argument to Any% RTA as we do Any% IGT. What's the difference, timing? That's it? That difference is basically null IMO, and since it isn't very popular and apparently people don't like running it, putting it into the Misc. category will apply the same logic that went behind putting 107% into Misc.
Third, the prospect of deciding whether or not to have both categories or have All Collectibles be absorbed into All Achievements is interesting. The main difference between the two is that there are multiple achievements that are not purposefully collected during All Collectibles (Kill 150 Enemies, Visit 500 Screens, Talk to all NPCs, et al.) making the runs both unique in their own ways. All Collectibles is not subject to the same time constrictions as All Achievements, making it much more palatable as an introductory category into this game, while All Achievements requires good working knowledge of the various jump-tricks, OOBs areas and locations of all collectibles, NPCs and Enemies. I say we gauge other's opinions on this as well, especially those still active in the community.
And on the subject of the name, if we decide to go with two categories (which I currently am in favor of), I don't think we should name one of them 100% since it could be misinterpreted with ease on what it is attempting to accomplish, although something along the lines of All Achievements (100%) might work.
Ninja Edit: If we had three main categories as well (Any% IGT, All Collectibles & All Achievements), that could be seen as the three difficulty levels of completion of said category, Any% IGT being the easiest category IMO, All Collectibles being the middle category, not too hard but not too easy, and All Achievements being the most technical and indepth category.
So this happened: https://secure.twitch.tv/taiyogamer/v/78301044
Basically, you can get every single achievement in the game. I posted a longer response in the recent sticky, but to sum it up here:
Achievement% is the closest we can get to a true 100%. I think it should become a main category, and we should leave 107% as a misc. category. My route has a lot of work that could be done to it, but if I can do it most of the community can do it too. Let's get some runners to try it out!
Here are my proposed rules for the category:
-Get every single achievement.
That's it. Doesn't matter how you get it (although whether or not it has to be in a single run is up for debate, since you could split it up into say one any% run and a collectibles% run as it is RTA), you just need to get every single achievement.
You don't really need to keep the upgraded gun in this run either I don't think, it just makes it easier. Perhaps a route could be made that doesn't keep the upgraded gun, that's entirely possible. Nor do you technically need the upgraded ship, but as I have it you get it anyways from Diplomat, although I think technically it can be skipped.
