Hi everyone,
I was wondering what the actual point of the PC and console sub categories is. The leaderboard already has the default platform filters and since the game is using in game time, there really isnt any difference between a console run and a pc run at 60 fps.
Console doesnt usually stay at the stable 60 and the input devices are different
Majority of PCs can stay at a stable 60 while consoles can dip to very low 30s. Most runs I have seen currently very rarely dip into below 50s on there runs. PC always has a better advantage over console in majority of games especially since PC also gets the 120 FPS cap as well.
Again, without a significant route difference, why split the leaderboards when theres an existing way to filter by platform built into the site.
I mean they've been given multiple reasons to split leaderboards by FPS, they didn't do that. There is a bigger difference in FPS than there is with Console vs PC lol. OP is using the same logic our overseer mods have come up with.
I guess what im trying to say is more along the lines of the site has platforms built into leaderboards by default, with the ability to sort them and stuff, so is it necessary to completly seperate the leaderboards when that exists.
Yes, it is necessary. Variables and sub-categories are there for a reason. Easily identifying who is competing with who is pretty important for a game such as this one. I'd like to remind you that this game has been out for one week, and PC and Console could be even more different in the future. Especially with the recent discovery of duping by dragging the mouse quickly in the item box?
Duping is a glitch, which will be in it's own category along with OOB. I will be shocked if OOB / glitched runs are competitive in any way.
I'm seeing inconsistent logic. 60/120 FPS are groped together "because you can just filter to your preference" but consoles and PC are separated when you could just as easily filter them out. I would much prefer they were reversed: platform was a filter and FPS was different categories, but if that's not going to happen, can we at least get some consistency here?
Can we stop acting like all of this is set in stone and forever? We've stated several times we want to see how the routing ends up ultimately being. If they're drastic, we're going to separate things. We're doing a filter for now so that it's easy to just move filtered runs into another category, if need be. Then whichever FPS is the most popular becomes the "default" on the leaderboards. So if 120 has more runs, then 120 will be the default view, and vice versa. IF we decided to go that way -- and there's no promise yet. So don't take this post as a promise we're going to separate things. It's not.
I'm seeing barely any 60 FPS runs being submitted -- this tells me it's a vocal minority here. Unless submissions start showing otherwise. I
There's no winning here. We did it one way, people whined. We did it another, people whined.
At this point, I'm not even open to feedback on this anymore. We're just going in circles. We can't please everyone. No matter what we've done, someone is coming around being passive aggressive and complaining.
We are going to re-evaluate things after the boards become more populated and we see how the routes change over time. If that means splitting things up, we will. If it doesn't end up being that drastic, we won't. We'll see. Just keep tight until we have more runs.
I feel like the moderation team has been trying to find a middle ground that makes as many people as happy as possible. It's not possible to please everyone, we get that, but we are trying to at least find that middle ground.
Most speedrun games the moderators would have the attitude of "so what?" on the subject of "pay to win!!". Ask Xerian how much he paid to be able to speedrun OoT.
We're trying to prevent that, but we also are trying to prevent the boards from being a mess. Have a little patience and just run the game.
It's day 1 of accepting submissions. Play the game. Submit runs. Once you actually get to the point where you can't possibly improve without moving to 120 FPS, then be concerned. People are jumping the gun and worrying about details that aren't completely relevant yet. Just run the game first instead of using this as a preemptive crutch and/or needless worry.
Hey bear, where's your run at? You seem to be very vocal on this as if it's personally affecting your runs, but I don't see you even participating in this game.
We literally tried separating them into two different categories. The backlash was extreme. I have several 120 FPS runs pending in the queue alone right now. It's DAY ONE of submissions.
Chill out and wait awhile so we can evaluate. Maybe go do a run rather than speak for a streamer or whatever you're doing.
lol, your logic is that my opinion means nothing because I haven't submitted a run? What a joke mentality. The reality is I've run plenty, mainly practice and feeling out what I want to run, and I have a day job.
I plan to be extremely active on this game like I was with Rev2, but I don't enjoy running 3 legged races with a 1 legged partner, and that is basically the disadvantage you put people at when merging categories.
Whatever man.
Look man, I already said we're going to evaluate things based on the popularity of 60 FPS and 120 FPS, and how different things are going to be. You keep popping in and making arguments. I'm not really sure what we can do to please you other than separate the boards again right now, which we're not doing -- not at this time.
I wasn't saying your opinion meant nothing, it just comes across like you're ignoring whats been said previously so you can essentially post the same argument. My point in bringing up your run status is -- you haven't even submitted a run yet. Why are you acting like you've hit a wall where you cannot personally improve anymore without 120 and that the leaderboards are locked in and that it's impossible for you to just compare to 60 FPS?
Submit a run first and compare to people in your frame rate in the mean time, rather than complain on the forums. We're trying to transition and figure out what's best here. It's been difficult, and it's impossible to please everyone. No matter what we've done, people have shitposted (not to imply you, bearlol, are personally shitposting by expressing your opinion) and been angry (mostly on the discord/twitch channels).
We really are trying to be fair. Look at almost every other PC speedrun game, or even console game, where having a better system (even other Biohazard games have this advantage, without separation) is just the norm. We're trying to be fair and understanding and prevent that - but we also don't want to lock out the majority who can run at 120 FPS (if that ends up being the case) either. Let the dust settle and just enjoy the game in the mean time, ya know?
I suggest people submit runs and try to beat their PBs -- show 60 FPS PC has value -- we'll cross this bridge if it comes to it later.
I get that it looks like all I'm trying to do is stir up shit, and to a point sure. I guess I have. Which I will apologize for.
My issue is that hard evidence has been provided proving the discrepancy between runs at 60 FPS and 120 FPS, I'll regress my point, but 1 cycling bosses is something that doesn't happen on 60 FPS at all. Do I feel like I hit a wall? Absolutely not, I can save lots of time on my runs, primarily on ammo management.
I'll send a run and do it for how it is
!! EDIT Not to mention Claire hasn't been explored all that much, who knows the possible discrepancy with the grenade launcher, which has been proven to be DoT damage, which is normally calculated by in game ticks
I get you, bear. Best case scenario, consider this a temporary phase. In the mean time, I heavily encourage 60 FPS runners to keep on trucking and submit their runs and just have fun with the game. The filter system allows us to really easily create different categories in the future if the community decides on it.
We're just not making any major changes right now. Going to wait it out a few weeks and evaluate then (there's things to consider too, such as the amount of runners in both frame rates, not just routing differences).
FWIW I'd imagine PC also has a huge advantage in regards to menuing since the game actually supports using the mouse cursor for inventory management. Kind of annoying to learn after being used to using the keyboard for RE7, but it's REALLY fast once you've got it into muscle memory. Just being able to drag and drop a key item into the first slot is going to save you close to a second or more every time you have to use the item in that slot. It just makes sense to separate PC and console.
