I don't think there's a huge difference between the release and the past updates that would require wiping every run. Except for Update 95. I am very, strongly for removing these runs as the lasers were unbelievably overpowered. Overpowered to the point that someone on /r/NuclearThrone made a meme video about it.

That all being said, I'm not against wiping all the runs. I won't have any problems if that's what the community decides on. My only wish is to remove any runs in Update 95 that utilized lasers to an extent.

No problem! If we ever do get runs that are super close, we'll base it off of milliseconds. Having said that, I think we're in pretty good shape now when it comes to timings and rules.

Yeah, I can set it to In-Game time by default, but I can't get rid of Real-Time or move it to the right side instead. I'll look into it more.

Edit: That's the best I can get it. Time Without Loads is In-Game time (which is essentially what that is), and Time With Loads is Real Time. I had to edit each run to get the proper values, and I think it's good like that. But if you guys would rather it be the other way, I still have all the values saved so I can revert it back at anytime.

Edit 2: Should we use milliseconds since In-Game timer records milliseconds anyways?

When the game is fully released, as long as there is nothing seriously differentiating itself and the game a few updates behind, then I think we should keep those runs.

If everyone's okay with timing In-Game now, then all we should have to do is change the rule and the order the timings are in on the leaderboard, right? I'm all for it.

6 character runs definitely seem like a good category to add. It offers a middle ground for people who want to do more than your ordinary 1 character run, but don't want to put so much time into a 12 character run which could be exhausting (especially with such high RNG). We could have a no skips category, but I'm not entirely sure how often people would run this when it's just a few more levels and some extra time.

As for timings, I'm entirely for 1 character runs being timed by the in-game timer. As long as pausing is not abused, it rids the extremely inconsistent loading times and also includes mutation times. With this in mind, starting and stopping shouldn't be an issue in 1 character runs. If we ultimately decide on Out-Of-Game timings, then it should start when Go is pressed, and end when the character sits on the throne (hopefully fixed soon). Until it is fixed, just estimate based off of other runs.

All runs that are not done with 1 character (6, 12, etc.) should be recorded Out-Of-Game, and should start when Go is pressed, and end when the last character sits on the throne.

Edit: I cleaned up the rules for both current runs, so feel free to check them out. I did not add or remove any rules, just organized it so it's cleaner.

I would send a Twitch message, but their messaging platform seems to be really awful. From my personal use, I've never been notified of new messages and I've had to go to messages just to find out I got one months ago and didn't know. I felt like he would have a better chance responding to a forum post, but he didn't respond like I thought he would.

As for the timings, I feel like only having one set way would cause less confusion and lead to many runs not being ruined. For instance, if two people both ran the game and got a similar time, but one of them won simply because they timed in game (no loading times, no mutation times) versus the other person who timed out of game, it could cause one person to get WR when the other should have. All because of no set way of actually timing the game, which I feel for a rogue like, which is already random enough, we need.

As for not having a run submitted, I understand. I've only been playing the game long enough that beating it normally still provides a challenge, so speedrunning it is a bit hard. Would I be accepted as a moderator if I were to get a run finished?

Could I gain access as a moderator for Nuclear Throne? The current moderator is not accepting consistent timings (accepting both in-game and out-of-game times), and there is no way I have found to contact him other than Twith message, which is horribly unreliable. I have made forum posts, and although it seems he has seen them, he hasn't weighed his opinion on them. I don't currently have a finished run for the game, but I do run it and am active on the forums.

Edit: Plus, having more than one moderator for something is always good. I'm not suggesting he be removed, I just don't think the way he's currently running things is proper if this game is ever to be speedrunned seriously.

This really needs to be addressed now, as second place run is currently timed in-game (no loading times), where first place is timed out of game and does have loading times. For running an already inconsistent game, we should absolutely have no inconsistencies in timing. They should either be timed in game or out of game, not both. As of right now, using the in-game timer removes both loading and mutation times. Out of game timer obviously doesn't, and we need a solid way of going about this.

I know this is contradicting my previous statement, but I believe we should use the in-game timer. It eliminates the oddly inconsistent loading times. Pauses should not be allowed; however, one or two is okay if it needs to be paused as long as it's not used as a break or to an advantage.

Yeah, if it doesn't count paused time then it definitely shouldn't be used. It can be abused too easily.

So I believe as the game is actively updated, runs we have listed should be removed. I am not suggesting that we remove all runs whenever there is an update; however, I feel they are no longer valid as the game is changed to a certain extent. For example, the current World Record placed 4 months ago was ran on Update #77. At the time of writing this, the game is currently on Update #93.

Since Update #77, these changes have been made that could affect current runs compared to then:

• Turrets have increased HP and a higher chance to spawn (79)

• Boss Intros were added (83)

• Certain enemies such as grunts were made more aggressive (84)

• Snow Tanks are more aggressive and react faster (83 + 91)

• Three new rare enemies (78 + 93)

• Increased damage from IDPD explosions (93)

• Lil' Hunter only spawns Grunts pre-loop (81) (I am not sure if this means Grunts were never spawned by Lil' Hunter previously, but the current WR had no spawned grunts so it's a possibility)

• Fixed rate of fire for Steroid's second weapon (86) (Not sure if for better or worse)

Now of course with this, there were many parts of these updates that changed the game and made certain aspects less troubling and easier. But this only goes to show how much the game has changed and how runs on past updates could potentially no longer be valid. I personally don't believe that these runs should be valid after a certain number of game-changing updates, but I wanted to know what vPixl and others thought.

Ideas?

All information gathered in this post was taken from the Update History Wiki - http://nuclear-throne.wikia.com/wiki/Update_History

I haven't beaten the game enough times to know if stopping after the cutscene would be a good place. I might be wrong, but aren't there different endings? Wouldn't this change the length of the speedrun if we were to stop after that? Stopping when your character sits on the throne sounds like a good compromise as long as it's accurately stopped.