i think that the run should end either when the last boss is defeated or when the first frame of the loading screen loads
Yeah, something would probably work better, I just rolled with whatever for the first time. I think I'll change it to the first frame of the loading screen post final boss, as that should work slightly better.
I changed it to be when the game fades to black after the final boss was killed, as that seems the most fitting, and I changed the times on the previous runs to match.
shouldn't the time start once you first enter the dungeon? as in, before picking the gift and team, since id argue that that still counts towards the run
I personally had always timed my runs to start once I spent the energy and end in time with the "Victory" stamp after defeating the last boss, that to me made the most sense as when your control of the run starts and when it ends
My personal reasoning for wanting the run to start on the map is that the Identity and E.G.O selection is always the exact same, and while menuing is a crucial part of any speedrun, in a run so heavily dependent on RNG I figured it would be best for the run to really start as soon as you had to start dealing with that RNG, being the map.
RNG heavy or not, imo a timer starts when you start having impact on the time.
Plus, it's not just menuing but there's also a level of strategy included there, (there's a world of difference between bringing cotton with Base Lu, Yisang, and Outis vs battery with Rheath, LCC Ish, and G corp Greg (+ RNG on what E.G.O choices you're given)) and I just feel like that kind of quick thinking should be included and rewarded.
also there's a 13:08 (timed the way I mentioned in my last post, but can be retimed) run i want to submit but the dropdown doesn't go higher than v1.9.0, if you're busy I can offer to help out with keeping it updated?
Question. For the full Canto 1-3 run, are we allowed to pull on any other banner besides the 'Starting Manager' banners and the 'Standard Extraction'? Because I'm pretty sure having some runs be better than another because they were made at the right time is a... bad idea for the future.
That's a good point, it would be pretty unfair.
we could try to have it so that you're only allowed to pull on the 'Starting Manager' banner and can't use anything you gain through mail as that would change based on when you make your account. if its possible to gain enough lunacy through playing the game, standard extraction could also be allowed
-based partially on the Arknights speedrun rules
When I try to submit a run the latest version I can select is 1.9.0, and the most current version (that I did that run on) is 1.11.0.
So whoever is running this should probably update that.
Sorry for the late replies, but I've addressed all of your issues and it should be all set now!
Timer for Mirror Dungeon now starts as soon as you hit the "Enter" button after selecting Mirror of the Beginning, and it ends after you kill the final boss when the screen fades out, right before the loading screen starts. I'll go and adjust the prior submissions to match the new rules.
Simulation runs are allowed for Mirror Dungeon runs, it's the same thing just for no cost, after all.
New Manager Hire and Standard Extraction banners are the only ones allowed in the main game runs, and I'll add a category for Canto I-IV, although that sounds even more painful than the one we have right now.
As far as game versions go, they need to be added with every update, so if the game version you need is ever not present, just set it to whatever and just mention the game version in the submission. And it's set to only count the main game versions, so stuff like 1.12.1 isn't separate from 1.12.0 since it is mostly the same, although if glitches ever effect a run then this can be subject to change.
The mirror dungeon stuff is subject to change, of course, as this upcoming update may warrant some major changes, which is why I was definitely somewhat uncertain about how to handle it for the time be.
1 more, very very very important question (for full game runs in specific)
Are we allowing the use of the friend/support system? It would make the run a lot less RNG reliant (since you wouldn't be relying as much on what sinners you pull) and makes it a lot faster. And unlike the other stuff we banned (like receiving gifts that depend on when your account was created for example) it's entirely up to your control (aka you choose who to send the request to, and you'd probably just end up friending your main account so you can use your good sinners)
I don't see any reason not to, should work fine. friending yourself would likely be the only option, since you also would have to let them accept the req in order to use their supports
And in terms of the mirror dungeon update, maybe we could separate it into different leaderboards? like Pre-1.13 and 1.13+ since the changes to gameplay will be so significant. Pre-1.13 would likely just end up an archive board as no one would be able to post on it unless they happened to already have an old run of it, but I still think it should be kept without mixing it in with the newer versions. Just a suggestion
Would it be possible to have a category for canto dungeons with no gacha? I'm kind of wanting to try my hand at limbus speedrunning but I don't want to hassle with gacha rng to get a good run lmao. maybe timer starts when the dungeon first loads in and ends when the cg of sinclair appears? just a thought
The idea of an LCB Identity only speedrun definitely makes sense! It'd just cut down on the gacha luck stuff, as you said. The question is whether or not you allow Shi Ishmael at that rate, because on one hand, shi is a guarantied pull you get every run, but on the other hand, then it wouldn't be LCB only. I'd certainly be willing to other's opinions on this idea, though!
Since the update dropped that changed how the MD works, the "start timer upon pressing "Enter"" doesn't make that much sense anymore. Rerolling is an important part of speedruns now, seeing that world record has Lunar Memory in it, and if speedruner wants to do any run optimized enough to beat something like that, they have to reroll a lot, which means that they have to constantly start and end timer each time upon pressing Enter, which is only an inconvenience. Replacing the timer start to the "Buy" button that appears after you've selected a team would make more sense, as it would allow speedruners to easily reroll the gifts without having to start and end timer each time.
on average it takes around 6 seconds to get from 'Enter' to 'Buy' without stopping to read/think, so if you set your LiveSplit to count from +6s and start time as you press 'Buy' you'll have the ease of rerolling while also keeping times consistent.
afterwards, if you want to submit your run you can use https://slashinfty.github.io/yt-frame-timer/ to time your run more accurately, starting from 'Enter' and cutting out all the rerolls (this part is entirely optional tho, the extra 6s above should keep you covered)
It's what I've been doing in my more recent runs as my game is currently bugged in a way that MD doesn't save my preset IDs + EGOs half the time, killing a lot of my runs unfairly
best of luck on WR!
Luck is indeed very important, a single Lunar Memory run took me 3+ hours of rerolls... MM category is officially ruined because of this singular gift, thanks PM for the very balanced EGO gifts.
Good thing they're removing Lunar Memory from the starting pool next update, otherwise this is just unplayable.
Still, I do agree that starting the run on the "Buy" click is probably the best way to go about this as it just prevents a lot of unnecessary hastle and unnecessary mental pressure.
