I vote for A

The following is a poll on the Proposal: "Integrate All Levels into Any% subcategory as variable instead of a category."

The choices are:

A: Reorganise the leaderboard, so that "All Levels" is now a variable which appears under the "Any" category. All Levels runs will not obsolete Any% runs.

B: Leave the leaderboard as is, so that "All Levels" remains its own category.

How to Vote:

• Only those who have verified, full game, main board SuperTux runs can vote.
• Vote by replying to this message with your choice only and once only.
• Please take notice of the original Proposal and discussion on the Tux Speedrunning Community Discord.

Vote Below by replying with either "A" or "B" in place of "X" as your message:

I vote for "X"

The moderators have discussed a potential category reorganisation for the main leaderboard:

• The proposal is to convert the sub-category All Levels into a variable which appears under any%
• The proposal won't apply to CEs: All levels often serves a significant difference to any% in most/all CE worldmaps.

We do not wish to undo any accomplishments or simply remove times from the leaderboard. Instead, we propose:

1. The sub-category All Levels is changed into a variable, which would appear under any% runs.
2. Any% means "any method of completion", so all levels could appear under this definition, defined by its variable.
3. If wished, you can sort any% by what completion method was used using src's sort feature.

Arguments in support the conversion could be:

• 3 of the 4 All levels categories are variations of any% to a small extent, only allowing for roughly 4-5 additional levels over the standard route. This makes All levels, mostly serve as a category done for the sake of getting a WR time or master role. It is not necessarily a category that is done for enjoyment.
• This reduces the main category count to 8 which increases competition in other main categories, time could spent doing more enjoyable categories.
• This also would deflate the main category competition for when v0.7.0 comes out. Instead of 18 main categories, we would have 12.

Arguments against the conversion could be:

• 1 out of the 4 All levels categories (All levels, Forest, 0.5.x), is distinctive from any% - the route is different, more skips are used, more levels are played. This category is fun and could benefit from competition and therefore appearing as a main category and not a variable.

Please discuss this proposal in the Community Discord to form your opinions and share your thoughts. In case we have missed any key advantages/disadvantages, additional arguments for/against the decision will be summarised based on discussions and added above.

This post and poll will be announced on the SuperTux SRC main leaderboard forums and Discord.

• The poll will be conducted on speedrun.com/st on: 1st August, 2024 at 12:00pm BST
• Only those with verified, full-game supertux runs will be allowed to vote.
• Voters will reply under a thread with their choice
• Voting will close on: 8th August, 2024 12:00pm BST
• Votes will be counted

The decision will be to either:

• A: reorganise the leaderboard so All levels is a variable under any%,
• B: leave the leaderboard, so All Levels is its own main category.

time against clock

Hi, moderator of SuperTux here.

The main reason I haven't submitted a game request for STA yet is because the game is still in volatile development - for example, some levels have been changed in nightly versions to make them mildly easier, etc. There's no reason to have leaderboards for the game when there are A: so many nightly versions that one might be advantageous for one specific level vs another specific level that needs another nightly (this makes switching versions painful, needing to reinstall the game constantly), and B: there hasnt been a significant update yet (like supertux has).

SuperTux has major versions, released once every couple of years, but STA has literally been in development for a couple of months. While there is competition for speedruns at the moment, a leaderboard will need to have stringent laws on what nightlies are allowed and what aren't. Ideally nightlies that the community agree on being allowable and ones that arent.

I think a google docs sheet is ok, but it doesn't exactly make the runs discoverable.

@Fioresa no offence but your argument "i only count this as 1 count of cheating not 4" is literally the dumbest thing i have ever seen.

if you're in court for theft, where you stole from 4 different shops, you get charged on 4 counts of theft. wtf are you talking about. i dont think you understand the magnitude of the situation. even if you did, you clearly have some bias going into your argument.

dont care + ratio

https://media.tenor.co/videos/cbc458c51f84412fc0b58244d44268c2/mp4

yea deleting comments and not going public about it is super manipulative weirdo behaviour. this person is still very much a threat to the community.

i think if you cheat multiple times you shouldn't be allowed back in the community. his apology wasn't that sincere, and frankly, there's better runners nowadays deserving of attention who haven't cheated - instead of this dude.

also, cheating is one thing. but cheating in front of an audience of thousands is frankly embarrassing. what precedent does that set for everyone else? its not a good example. i think this point should also contribute to his ban. it's like how Dream cheated in minecraft, completely alienating the community. not worth the communities time and effort, so its best to just keep him banned imo.

i think if jaypin was sincerely sorry he would leave speedrunning for good.

Bug with deleting categories - then the runs still existing.

If there are runs submitted to a category with a specific variable, and that variable is deleted, speedrun.com says "are you sure? runs associated with that variable will be deleted" or something along those lines - well, they aren't deleted. they literally still exist. you can find the run that isnt deleted by going onto your main profile, looking at the runs you have done.

for example, i deleted the bonus island III variable on the leaderboards (since we're moving it to category extensions) and it literally still exists in my run page. just under the name "any% - 0.6.x" which does not make any sense. you cant any% a version. what world map is it doing? its a nonsensical thing and im not sure why it wasnt deleted when the variable was. this is a pretty big bug. it doesnt appear anywhere on the supertux leaderboards - so why is it in my run list?

Hi, I moderate SuperTux (speedrun.com/st). Currently we have worlds called the "Bonus Island[s]" which don't really fit the main story of the game; extra content. Could we have a category extension board as well as the main one we have right now? The Bonus Islands, although not relevant to the game, can still be pretty fun most times, and since they don't differ much between the two major versions we have, it'd also be neater to merge them into one uniform board, so it'd also simplify things a lot and we wouldn't get duplicates. We would also like to add some worlds that are honestly too cursed for the main boards and need their own space.

Thanks

Hey guys. With the upload of my first TAS, there are some obvious timesaves throughout the place, as well as some minor theories i have to save a bit more time and get it under 15 minutes:

1: early game boosting.

there is a lot of room for improvement in the early game when it comes to boost routing, finding the best boosts and maximising the amount of boosts you can get. some boosts give better pixels than others. imagine it like this, there are two blocks in front of tux, if tux boosts off the first he cant boost off the second because its too close. but if tux's subpixel position lines up on the first block such that he only gets a 1px boost, he technically could get up to 7. 1px may be enough to save a frame, but if tux doesnt boost of the first and boosts off the second one he may be able to boost up to 7px because of how the subframes, pixels, line up. Tux moves at like 5.3333px/f which causes these subframe positions to happen, and this is what makes boost routing difficult. if this was done in the TAS throughout, it could save 3-4 seconds over time, but its very difficult.

2: Faster egg grab.

I have a theory that if you grab an ice cube and throw it at a powerup block, creating the egg to spawn and move and fall, tux doesnt need to slow down to grab the egg, and can just run into it and move on. This would save about 1.2 seconds, but lose about 0.1 to not killing the badguys in 23rd airbourne by doing a cycle skip. However, there might be another place to get the egg and also still do the cycle skip, but more ideas need to be presented.

3: fix up the mistake in "A Fork in the Road".

There is a moment in fork in the road where the TAS loses 0.2 to a mistake, which wasnt noticed during the production.

4: potential better RNG in "Living in a Fridge".

better RNG allowing for a fast acceleration kaizo jump after the ladder section, might be able to save 0.3s

5: "Ice in the Hole" Double global cycle skip.

Probably going to be the hardest thing to TAS ever, including multiple subframe manips, insane fast accels, manouveres, but there might be a way to skip both cycles with the global elevator platform at the end of the level. I've actually gotten a very low platform in RTA before by doing some extremely clean movement, I think with the TAS, this can be amplified to a much larger extent, and maybe even skip the cycle more. This could save about 4 seconds? This is the last huge theoretical timesave out there.

6: Faster Nolok's castle ladder section

might be a way to not lose the speed at the ladder section, but its kinda uncertain.

Yes, pretty much. Also, for Nolok's castle runs on 0.6.x, you're not allowed to do the Cutscene stat overlay glitch since it always results in an in game time of 48.01... and obviously that removes all skill needed to run nolok's castle, so It's best without that glitch. it would of course be allowed for full game runs.

100% was added for all worlds, although some worlds cannot be beaten 100%, they are separately named "Max%"

The new 100% definition includes all enemies, coins, and secrets collected but additionally a level target time to reach, making the route particularly interesting in newer versions of the game, with the introduction of the air flower creating revisits later in the run.

When you click on a level in the individual levels tab, you can click on category rules. In there, it should state if you need to show the black screen at the beginning of the level or not. This is because some levels have a cutscene that ends the level at the end, without showing the In-game-timer that most levels to, alongside the stats for the level. This window is crucial for verification. In other words, we need to see the black screen before the level because it shows your best time, and then we need to see the world map after your run because it shows your best time. If there is a change between those two times we can verify if your time changed, hence an actual PB. Some people might just get a really good time off camera, record a run, and pretend that run they just got resulted in their world map time. For some levels in the forest world, 0.6.0 Nolok's castle, and some others, this rule is needed.

I have 2 really big things i hate about this site (You said be brutal xD)

1. Please for the love of god fix it so we can have categories and subcategories defined as a tree rather than a bunch of variables. For example, in the tree, the first option would be version, and the subcategories of that can all have their names changed individually such that the other version can have different names but for the same world. Like, in my game, the newer version adds new worlds and we cant add it to the boards because it would appear under the old version.. even though it doesnt exist. This continuity error is very sore when you have to fix it by adding a "N/A 0:01s" time under it. It looks so awful. This also applies to IL leaderboards. Cant you guys just make an option so you can grey out the area or just remove the field for it? https://prnt.sc/tdpdvw It looks even worse when you see multiple in a row... so bad...

2. The splits.io segment times are in full seconds. WHY. Who changed this? it used to be in milliseconds but now its just rounded up. Thats SO inaccurate and frustrating. In my speed game we only gain or lose time in fractions of a second, so how the hell is this feature going to account for that now? I'm confused as to why this was changed...

@ShikenNuggets It has been over a week since my request, can I ask if you've found anything out from him?

@ShikenNuggets any news on my request from a couple days ago? He still hasn't been removed. Cheers.

Hi, I am requesting the removal of the moderator Dugglez from the SuperTux leaderboards.

He has been inactive for years, ever since i started speedrunning in october 2018 he has not verified a single run.

When I asked him to remove himself via discord, all of a sudden, he logged into his account (which before, it said last logged in: 5 months ago), verified a run (incorrectly, i know he didn't bother checking enemy cycles because that's the new standard we have, and he left the tux speedrunning discord)

He is also trying to mod someone else on the boards, who isnt supposed to be (Snooz made an application, i went through it with another moderator in the general tux speedrunning community, and we agreed that it would be rejected. The guy i talked with is called SnakeOb btw, he moderates Pingus). He completely ignored that and tried to make him mod (Snooz hasn't enabled email-verification or something so he couldn't be modded).

He has not touched the game in 4 years. He hasn't moderated in about 1-2 years, and the only time he did was about 40 minutes ago, when I reminded him he even had supertux mod in the first place.

I also have proof that i asked him to be removed and he denied to step down himself, because he claims he "jumpstarted" the community... 5 years ago. All he did was submit a few runs and verify a few runs. 5 Years ago. The game has received 2 major updates in that time, to give perspective. If you would like the proof I'm easily accessible on discord :)

thanks edit: i added the link here https://imgur.com/gallery/SqcoQYC

Hi

1. Because of the way speedrun.com handles variables, its not possible to give the 0.1.3 category no tags, for example, we physically cannot make it not have those 0.5.1 and 0.6.0 subcategories underneath it. The fact that you dont know this could be dangerous because changing variables and tags could lose submitted runs, and that shouldn't be messed with. This also applies to the "Bonus Island 4" subcategory for 0.6.0. We cant do that because bonus island 4 doesnt exist in 0.5.1, yet, speedrun.com will think it does. It's not as easy to fix the current board situation than you think. This also applies to the Icy island/antarctica inconsistency. But either way, this predicament shouldnt be discussed in this thread. This is actually due to a limitation of speedrun.com's user interface and resources. Not the mods fault, so this shouldn't have even been a point in this application.

2. The things you proposed to do such as fixing IL names could be easily fixed by just DM'ing me what the issues are.

3. Currently you and I are the only active runners of this game, and it doesn't really make sense to have both runners mods with how little verifying demand there is

4. You don't know how to verify runs based on what you said in your last paragraph. The way we verify runs is actually more discrete, we don't just check IGT and go along with our day, and the fact that you don't know how else you can verify IL runs shows that you might not be fit for the job.

Some of your ideas are good and your passion does show, but i'm just not thoroughly convinced. I don't see the point in making another person mod if the demand for speedrunning this game is at such a low. I appreciate your experience with the game, and i would be inclined to at least give you the verifier role, but I am not convinced you know how to verify runs yet. When this game gets more attention you'd be the first i'd be willing to teach though.

I'm willing to discuss your other suggestions in the discord and why some wouldn't work they way you think. I will also share this with the speedrunning discord in ensuring my reasons for rejection were fair. Thanks.