@English_Ben

"So the entire ruleset was changed even though you (50% of the moderation team) disagreed?" We both agreed that there should be an external timer. Pretty much every game that is on this website requires one, it is not a huge change.

"That and the fact that the sped up run was verified in the first place proves that DukeNukemFTW is in no position to moderate this leaderboard as they clearly have no idea what they're doing." It is NOT easy to notice that a run has been sped up, even 10% is not noticeable unless you are really looking for it. It is not noticeable in fights, since they are so quick anyway and the animations are so fast, you have to look at the cutscenes and running sections. A moderator could sit down and watch the whole 2 hour run and not notice anything strange. It is easy to miss, and an external timer would make it easier to notice.

"Take this how you will, but they also appointed a new super mod who days prior had made a forum post saying they were just learning the game?" Yes I was new to the Jade Empire page on speedrun.com, but I had been streaming Jade Empire on YouTube for a while, whilst looking for new routes, glitches, and optimising each chapter. That combined with the fact that I spent a long time going through Damp_Dogs video gathering evidence, and theorising ways to counter cheaters means that I was perfectly suited to be a mod. Just because I am new to this website doesn't mean I am new to the game OR to moderating runs.

@ThirstyWraith That was what I was thinking. I am not sure how fast the game will be on console anyway (not sure how good the Xbox One actually is, haven't used console for a long time :P) in terms of loading screens and so on. I was just looking at twitch right now. I know you can upload local files to twitch, but if it can be proven that you broadcast the game live from your Xbox One then I can't see there being a problem, we would just get the time from the video.

@ThirstyWraith The timer serves a couple of purposes. Firstly to give a more accurate run time, since you can view the timer on the frame the game starts, and ends, and work out the duration. And secondly, it makes it more difficult to cheat by speeding up your video, since the timer would also be sped up and would be noticeable over a long run. It is not intended to be a fool proof method of stopping cheating, it just makes it more difficult. In the case of console players, namely if it ever comes to Xbox One, I think it would be unreasonable to include a live timer, so maybe what you suggest is fine. I will need to have a think about it, and we could always discuss it whenever it does become compatible on the Xbox One.

As for your second point, the timer starts when you are done customising, and click the final button to enter the game.

@English_Ben The rules were implemented in order to make it more difficult to cheat. This was required since the #1 run at the time, by Damp_Dog, had cheated by speeding his video up 10% before uploading to YouTube. An external timer would make it easier to spot this, especially if the runner was less greedy and had only sped up their video by 1% for example. At the very least it would require more effort to cheat. I was also against removing any other times but the cheater's.

Done.

As for the PTR, it should be fine. But be aware that there could be changes to heroes between the PTR and official patch release. So if you set a time with Fenix, it is quite possible he will be slightly tuned before official release, and your time will become legacy pretty fast :P

Yeah the rules were not well written or very clear, the part about the maps just intends to say that it has to be a proper map that you could play in QM, or ranked. As in not a brawl map.

So in the current custom games screen you can't pick Lost Cavern or Mineral Madness :P

Hanamura is a bit interesting since it is supposed to be being completely reworked at the moment, but it isn't a very quick map so I don't think people will pick it.

If they were done pre 2.29.7 then yeah they should arguably be moved, even though they are not near the top of the leaderboard.

I believe that if a hero that has a time on the leaderboard receives an update which affects any mechanic of the hero which is used in the speedrun, then the time should be moved to legacy.

If Hammer or Sylv are ever changed in the future we could always make a post discussing the changes and whether they would impact speedrun times. But as it stands right now, even if we ignore hero changes, there have been so many changes to minions, mercs, towers, forts, and keeps in 2.29.3 and 2.29.7 that all runs before them should be legacy.

So you would agree on the legacy category?

My best BoE at the moment after a few tries is a 4:37 with hammer. It feels so slow compared to the 4 minute record :P

Hello,

After verifying the new Veteran Introduction time by myagus, which left two times at #1 with 2m56s, I began looking to see which one was actually faster (I considered making the times millisecond accurate) and I noticed that some of the times are not what they should be.

To clarify, the timer starts the instant you leave the loading screen, and ends on the frame when you hit level 10, which is when the UI at the top disappears, the "Challenge Complete" bar begins to appear, and the objectives are marked as complete. The external timers used are more of a guideline for the moderators instead of your "actual" time since you cannot be expected to stop the timer at the exact frame you win.

Based on this the times are:

TazzDingo - 2:55.84 (TazzDingo wins at 2:55.90, but actually begins timing 0.06s too early) myagus - 2:56.57 StefanHeroes - 2:58.94 StupidRunsOnly - 3:01.19

Because of the nature of these times there is no need to change to milliseconds since there are no ties. So TazzDingo should change to a 2:55, and Stefan to a 2:58.

I won't change anything yet to give you guys some time to look it over yourselves in case I made a mistake. Also sorry to myagus for potentially removing your #1 tie so fast :(

The thing is it isn't about another hero being able to beat it eventually, it is when a hero has the #1 time and is then made considerably worse. It seems unfair to have a time that COULD be completely unbeatable by that same hero.

Also I saw your single level sylv times, I don't think she would be as good on the levels without siege guys, you really need to use hammer. I have actually been working through the ILs getting good times and wasn't sure about maps like BoE, Infernal shrines, towers of doom, and warhead junction where there is a really good time with the old hammer.

How about I give you guys a few days to try and set a good time on Battlefield of Eternity for example, see how close you can get to the old hammer times. If you can't get close then I will create a legacy category.

Also is it okay if I verify my own runs? I thought it would be kinda shady doing it so I was waiting for the other mod to get back. I could mod one of you guys to do it :P

Hello everyone.

I was looking at doing some IL speedruns again and noticed that the ILs are dominated by the old Sgt. Hammer. Since she was reworked, it is no longer possible to come anywhere near her old times (She seems to be about 30 seconds slower), and it seems unfair to have a leaderboard that you can't compete with.

What are your thoughts on creating a new category for ILs which contain these obsolete runs? So all of the current Sgt Hammer runs from before patch 2.29.3 be moved to obsolete (that is the last patch in which Sgt. Hammer had damage changes.)

Also the 2.29.7 patch increased the health of keeps which will also impact times.

Thoughts?

Hey, this was one of my favourite games to play when I was younger, and have just gotten into trying to get a good speedrun for it. Any tips are welcome!

I have also been trying to find any useful glitches, there don't appear to be any :(, but I will let you guys know if I find any.

Anyway just wanted to say hello.

I will look into adding the tutorial tomorrow.

Is the quicksave/quickload ban just to ensure it is one complete run? Can I use quicksave/quickload for audio skips if I display an external timer?