Bretagne, FranceYes, there was. You can see it at 5:29 in this video:
We've tried to replicate it but unforunately, it seems it has been fixed in this version of OTS.
Indeed, it seems to be only possible on blue beams and not on walls. I've tried a lot but to no avail so it's either impossible or REALLY difficult. Too bad. It's still a pretty neat trick on blue beams (GG for the quintuple!) but it's way less useful for the runs.
Anyway, i'm getting a little bit better at getting the OOB. It's really a matter of getting the timing of the second shot right. I can't wait to try in a run!
So... I have tested this OOB and it's definitely more difficult that it looks like. I can currently get it about one time every ten attempts which is not enough. But, for a 15s saves it's not really the kind of strat i can skip, so... I'll have to train more to be more consistant.
About mistakes, it takes about 2~5 seconds to be able to try again to get the OOB after a fail (depending of the way we fail and get back) so we can make a few mistakes and still win some times. Luckily, since the OOB is at the very begining of the run, it's also not a big bother to just start the run again.
What is really interesting me about this is the ability to jump boost on a wall right after being teleported. Theorically, if we chain these we should be able to climb every straight wall which would be really useful. Unfortunately, from what i've tested it seems really difficult. The best thing i've managed to do so far is two in a row.
Wow, that's amazing ghuia! This the OOB i was really hopping we could get one day. I never thought of passing it like you did. This is awesome! It's a really huge improvement for any% and any% IGT. I'm not completely sure how to use it in collectible run yet. i'll think about it and test the OOB later.
(Edit: You will now be able to get your sub 6:30 :p)
Grabbing the heart at outpost cache: This is what ghuia is doing in his WR run. Grabbing the heart while doing the OOB at "Jumping Over" doesn't loose any time. Doing the OOB is actually a ~2s gain over the "in bound" route as ghuia detailed here: http://www.speedrun.com/ots/thread/v4a9s Now, the only place where having 2 heart saves a lot of time is at the brute in "the guard". It saves ~5s. (By comparing ghuia's run with Basilic's run)
So... I would say this is overall about 7 seconds saved.
Grabbing the heart at forgotten ruins: This is what i detailled here http://www.speedrun.com/ots/thread/edlcz/1#yq3hx. Grabbing this heart makes you loose only 1 second if done perfectly. Now, as to how many time you saves overall by having 3 hearts, it's a little more difficult to know because it doesn't allow for "big" time saving, just a lot of small ones. I would estimate it around 3~4 seconds.
In the end, the time saving is not negligible. Nevertheless, both OOB are not easy and depending of how confortable you are with the run, the risk/reward may not be worth it. When abbys beat ghuia's previous WR with a 6:55 run it was with 1 heart. ( http://www.speedrun.com/run/dy47w22y )
Very nice, i like it! The 4 blocks high boost jump is really a pain to do. I'm really glad we don't have to use it in the any% run ><.
Now, to add to what ghuia already said:
-You can still OOB in the first room. (The same way you OOB over "Jumping Over" in any% runs)
-In the 50_8 room there are two solid blocks without any texture:
The first one:
And the one under the red beam:
It actually makes the room look impossible at first glance because of this ^^'
-The lava really look weird. That's because you should use the "resize" tool in OGMO when you are putting lava (or water) in your level. The "resize" tool allow you to make rectangles of lava allowing the game to make lava look more homogeneous.
You'll get this:
Instead of this:
My strat is a little bit faster (but not much). You can see it because in my strat, you can go through the brute right after his second shoot. In your strat, it correspond to the moment you start dropping on him so that's probably a time save of something like, less than half a second.
Wow, pretty cool ghuia! Nice discovery. You have to be as quick as possible to shoot the ghost but even if you miss you can still go the intended way so that's not even a dangerous strat. The only risk is to touch the ghost a second time because you wouldn't be able to damage off the brute and loose a lot of time. But i think i found a way to avoid this problem and make your strat a little faster by going to the right instead of the last after the damage boost. Like this:
It's not much faster but it's enough to avoid the ghost coming back. The only added difficulty is not to shoot too fast after the damage boost or you will get teleported before touching the ground and won't be able to jump.
To Prettz: I think you can fall on the brute in amazing horseshoe with only 3HP. That's what i did in my collectible run at 11:07 (timecode of the video, not the run)
But it's still a little faster to go through him by getting shoot.
Here is a faster way to do this OBB (but a little bit more difficult):
For any% IGT: This is only 1 second slower than the current route when done perfectly but you get a life capsule. Combining with the life capsule you get with ghuia's WR route, it's allowing you to do a run with 3 life points. This way, you can go through some rooms faster. For example:
Blue Lake:
Amazing Horseshoe:
From what i've tried, i think it gets an overall benefit of ~4 seconds for the whole run if everything is done perfectly so.... This OOB can actually be beneficial for any% IGT runs. It's just not an easy one to pull off correctly and for a quite small time saving.
Thank you everyone for your opinion. I'm glad we manage to find a general consensus about this issue. Having as many opinion as possible is always a good thing so don't hesitate to share your opinion when you see this kind of topic!
This issue was really at the limit between what is allowed and what isn't so this was a good thing to think deeply about it. As ghuia said, considering how small the community is, cheating isn't really an issue at this point. Adding a new complicated step to the submission process just to prevent a low threat of cheating would be really overzealous and kinda stupid at this point.
No change will be made to the submission process then. We will just be more careful when watching new runs being submitted.
Thank you ghuia for bringing up this issue. This was a pretty neat discovery. Also, congratulation for getting on the moderation team!
That put us in quite a tricky situation.
The fact that you have to use an external program to make a modification that affect directly the gameplay shouldn't really be allowed. Not only does it bypass the fact that the game was made so that you can't bind the mouse wheel to anything but it also bypass the fact that only one touch on the keyboard can be bind to one action. Otherwise, you could also bind two keys of the keyboard to "shoot" and mash both buttons with two fingers which is also way faster (even if not as fast as the mouse wheel). In the end, what you did is pretty similar to using the mouse wheel as a turbo controller.
But the problem is, if we don't allow that, it would be really complicated to check that nobody is using this in future runs. The only reliable way would be to ask everybody to put a video of their hand with the run but this is obviously needlessly complicated.
I agree that we have to take a decision at some point and we have already talked about it with prettz but the problem seems a little bit more complicated that it looked at first glance.
Interesting, the second part is not linear. It's a good change of pace from the whole game! Oddly enough, it's also way easier and doesn't have any tricky part like the beggining of your maps. As for choosing the way your map is supposed to be played, i think it depends on who you want to share it with. It's pretty interesting for us to see speedrun strats in the level design but if you want to share it to other player on steam it will be unplayable for them. Just choose what you prefer!
You're welcome! I'm glad to see people are able to create levels using it! Unfortunately, it's currently impossible to make custom messages without having to modify the code of the game. The "message" box in the npc objects are shortcut for their dialogue.
The only thing you can do is make one npc say the line of another one. Not really interesting unfortunately. :(
I've just finished playing it and yeah, it was pretty cool! It was nice seeing levels actually made with intention that you use the "speedrunning strats". There was also some nice ideas in it :) . Too bad it was a little short.
Nevertheless, it's a shame that, because you need speedrunning techniques to go through the levels, nobody outside our little speerunning community can really play theses levels. :(
Otherwise, i don't have anything to add to what ghuia said except that i noticed the same things.
Nice work!
Very interesting. I never thought of doing that. You're basically reaching the shooting speed limit: One shoot every two frames.
Considering that the boss has 180HP, that each bullet does 1 damage, that you can shoot up to two bullets every two frames and that it takes ~40 frames for your first bullet to reach the boss you get a theorical time of ~220 frames (about 3.7 seconds) to beat the boss the fastest way possible.
In your video, it took you ~260 frames (about 4.3 seconds) so you're close to the theorical limit using the mouse wheel.
In any case, it's a pretty significant improvement considering that it usually took 8~10 seconds to beat it with the usual button mashing.
Now, about whether or not we should allow it i'm a little bit conflicted. I don't consider this in the same category as "changing monitor brightness" or "using a split timer" because using the mouse scroll afect directly the gameplay and that's what bother me. But, since you doesn't alter the game i don't think it should be banned so... I'm waiting to see everybody else's opinion for the moment.
Sorry about the confusion. I change the sentence a little bit hopefully fixing the confusion.
Hello everybody,
I don't know if it was known before but i found out that you can go over Forgotten Ruins very similarly to the OOB over Jumping Over (http://www.speedrun.com/ots/thread/v4a9s) like this:
The timing needs a lit bit of training to get used to but it's not that difficult. The hardest part is the very short time window you have to <shoot right>+<jump right> at 0:11.
It's pretty useless for any% runs. The current any% route is 5s faster (IGT). It's even worse for real time because there is a life capsule in the way which pops up some dialogue.
But for collectible%, it's a gain of about 10 seconds because it's on the path of a life capsule. It also means that you can fail it 1~2 times (depending how you fail) and it would be still worth it.
(P.S. Dont forget to jump over the two OOB screens or you'll get a collision glitch.)
Edit: Apparently, it's possible to do it faster and for this OOB to be beneficial for any% runs. More details here: http://www.speedrun.com/ots/thread/edlcz/1#yq3hx
Because of several rejected runs over the last month i would like to remind everybody to read the rules. If you have any doubt on any rule don't hesitate to ask us here. It's always really a shame to have to reject a run :(
Here is a little TL;DR of the essential (that ignore some rare exceptions that are in the rules) for those a little bit confused:
Any% IGT and 107% IGT: ¤Use the in-game timer. ¤Don't go back to the main menu in the middle of the run. ¤Don't trigger the smoke overflow glitch.
Any%: ¤Use an external timer. (Timer start at the selection of the new game and end when the ship start exploding) ¤Start the recording at the miniboss logo.
Collectibles%: ¤Use an external timer. (Timer start at the selection of the new game and end when the ship start exploding) ¤Get all collectible AND the spaceship upgrade.
Hopefully it will help avoid the most common reasons a run is being rejected.
