yea the link is not working for me either

well, voting will still be open even after results are shown, right?

timing starts when you gain control of Chell. The crosshair appears at the same moment, which gives us a good visual cue of when you have control

no one is going to think it's allowed, it's obvious that skipping ahead with commands is not a real speedrun

it doesn't matter that portal can theoretically lose time, the difference is that portal 1 does not require any input until after the save point, where portal 2 does require input

which isn't 2/3s majority anyway... but more than half, so it's significant. Can you make the survey results public at the end of the week? We all need to review the comments and who is a runner and all that before we can make the decision.

are seriously advocating use of cheats during a run?

You are correct - It is not just a cutscene, you do have actions to progress

Thank you! The descriptions for each mode look good to me.

Hmm actually noticed the wording on the question is kind of wrong, we are proposing to skip the container ride, not the vault. Maybe it should specify where the save is proposed to be: right before the container opens up and the crosshairs reappear.

I think it's OK to use the above post as an official voting survey. Please share with any portal 2 runners you can: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5KWRS56

We should allow at least 1 Week for people to respond, not everyone is online all the time and I don't want anyone to feel their voice isn't heard.

I realize the boxes are kind of small so feel free to write your responses somewhere else and copy paste them into the survey before submitting.

Thanks

I don't think the save should be allowed based on your time or rank or whatever - besides, Pero wants to use it and he's a top runner.

Let's make a poll of the following:

1. Your name and if you run the game
2. For/Against/Impartial to using a save at the end of the container ride (just before the chamber wall opens)
3. Your reason(s) for your choice
4. Any other comments/thoughts

Personally I agree more with "do what is legitimate", because speedrunning has never been convenient or easy... it's supposed to be a challenge and that's part of what makes it fun

yea avetixz so you would lie more on the "do what is legitimate" side, where testicles12 lies more on the "do what is convenient/fun" side.

I think even with a lot of discussion it's hard to say if people will ever be convinced to switch their values either way... so if the number of runners on each "side" is approximately equal we'll have to have some form of compromise.

Darkstreamer, you are right and the variable should be created only after we have more of a consensus about it, and once the timing method is agreed upon by more people.

Also I agree that there is a big difference between Portal 1 where no inputs are needed before the save (and there's no time to be lost) but in Portal 2 you need to perform a series of inputs, in which you can lose time and typically WILL lose a small amount of time.

The main arguments I have heard for allowing a segment: -The intro adds no value to the quality of a run -The intro takes away from runners' willingness to do runs/improve their times in the category -Any time lost in the intro is insignificant

The main arguments for not allowing: -By definition it is neither single segment nor a run of the full game -A segment with significant inputs and potential time loss should not be OK -There's a meaningful difference between pretending you did the intro in a reasonable amount of time and actually doing the intro -It introduces irregular timing concerns, such as potentially not using demo length and arbitrarily determining a reasonable intro length to append

Personally I feel like the arguments can be divided into a "do what is more convenient/fun" vs. "do what is more legitimate/in line with general speedrunning rules". An individual runner's values can lie more to one side or the other of this spectrum

alright, boredom/impatient, however you feel about the intro. I'm just thinking about the best way to fulfill the need for people to skip the intro which does not introduce a run timing advantage. If a 0.5 does not mean a lot to you, then I take it you would be fine adding 0.5 extra for runs that use this save. Again, it's merely a way to simulate the time most full game runs would lose in the opening 4 minutes.

In the case that a bunch of runners want to do this, we can potentially create an option similar to Vault Save Yes/No that exists on Portal 1 leaderboards.

The trickiest part of this is determining how to accuratly time the run if you start at a save. Also, on average you are not going to get perfect first tick going to sleep and jumping so it's kind of unfair if you base your timing off the fastest theoretical beginning. There's gotta be some small penalty or addition of time to compensate for that.. maybe 0.5 sec?

Also, are we using the save point itself to measure the amount of time since the beginning of the game, or are we going to use the teleport at the chamber crashing open as a reference point for when to begin adding time to a predetermined intro length? I personally think using the teleport (or crosshairs reappearing, whichever is easier) and adding an offset to that is going to be more accurate from a timing perspective. Of course, I still think it's unfair if this offset assumes no time loss in the intro.

Wall strafe a glitch? what are you going to ban, walking next to a wall?

Also I don't think you can claim you took time to think about it when you don't even mention crouch flying... but anyway, here's a list I made a little while back as a starting point for glitch definitions:

Portal 2 Glitch list

Portal Peek Portal Bump Airborne Reportals Laser switch glitch Button glitch Object clipping (ex: smooth jazz) Save/load clipping Crouch flying Stuck Launch Super Physics Deform Triggering Scripted Momentum at low speed/wrong direction Non-cube on button dialogue Crouch boosting (orange gel)

Shoot through door (neurotoxin) Elevator skip in core Clipping through elevator in cave johnson Break glass with body (crazy box) Portal through glass (potatos) Portal on dissapearing gel (finale4) Tube bounce (3 gels)

This has been rejected in the past - and I feel very strongly about rules or exceptions being made for unjustified/lazy reasons, especially if they compromise the definition and timing accuracy of the category.

I recommend to runners who don't have the patience to simply focus on practicing the parts of the run that you need to work on and minimize how often you are resetting especially early game. For the sake of practice, sure begin wherever you want. But let's not ruin the integrity of the leaderboards or pretend like you are doing something you're not. Please don't call it a full game speedrun if you are splitting your actions apart (or in this case, borrowing someone else's actions).

actually... I imagine when new runs are submitted there is already some check for an existing one to replace. We'd just have to add an exception where if the run that would be replaced is another runner's PB, it stays.