Capital Territory, AustraliaHeya I've added a tab for PC :) feel free to submit your runs now!
Ah okay, fair enough. Sounds like it might be a little smoother than tilting the controller, but I guess you get used to whatever controls.
Out of curiosity, what exactly are the PC controls. It's not WASD is it?
I'm sure you'll improve for next time! I've added a PC leaderboard now, so you'll be able to submit it there. Happy runs! Maybe I'll join you sometime in the future :)
Yup not an issue, I'll add the category to the leaderboard.
To keep runs consistent between categories, we play off a clean save file with no balloon's pre-purchased and use the 'Play' option to start the beginning of the run rather than 'chapter select' or 'continue'.
Based on these I shouldn't add your run to the leaderboards, but seeing as there aren't any runs in the category, I'd be happy to put your run up if you'd like to submit it. Better still, try and improve it with the above rules!
It's a shame you don't want to keep playing! It's a small community and a cute speedgame :D Thanks for your interest regardless!
The other side of the spectrum though, allowing toys may allow for some fun shenanigans with the hose/rifle (rifle's probably too late to be of use). The thing is, I doubt it will be worth the time it takes to exit the menu and unlock it if you're including load times.
Yes you need the balloons from each chapter, but once you've collected all the pages/balloons in a chapter, if you don't force chapter completion then you can just exit without finishing it and start the next one.
I suspected it wouldn't. I am in favour of forcing chapter completion.
I don't think we should need to accommodate for people missing collectables. There aren't that many and anyone who has completed more than one run is unlikely to forget any of them. Having to redo a chapter for a collectable is a dead run regardless :P
I wonder, if you allow toys and then unlock all chapters, should that count as all chapter completion? Seems like some real cheese to me? I would bet that doesn't unlock the individual level trophies and hence shouldn't count towards all collectables?
I'm of the opinion that seeing as there's no trophy or anything measurable to say you've done the prototype, and there's no storyline benefit, that it shouldn't be included. Whether you want to include Telescopic based on that, I'm not sure. Can you classify that as something collectable? Wall storybook pages are measurable given that you can always check if you have the trophy for it, albeit not conveniently for PS4.
I intend to run it again, yes. Potentially on both platforms? But it won't be for a little while, as I'm working on other things at present.
Chapter 1 load in was using the pre-loading strat, which is the same one that allows you to skip the first cutscene. By entering the first level and quitting, you could still use Play rather than continue, and the first load time was quite a lot faster as a result. That's why my first load isn't too much slower than yours. Back when I was running, I didn't want to allow myself to skip this cutscene as you don't skip any of the others.
- Ch.1 Load In A. 2.35 B. 4.05 (without pre-loading)
- Ch.1 Load Out A. 3.32 B. 3.31
- Ch.2 Load In A. 19.98 B. 19.53
- Scaffolding Load Out A. Not performed B. Not performed
- Scaffolding Load In A. Not performed B. Not performed
- Ch.2 Mid Level Load A. 1.11 B. 2.27
- Ch.2 Load Out A. 4.16 B. 4.44
- Ch.3 Load In A. 13.11 B. 13.16
- Ch.3 Skip Load A. Not performed B. Not performed
- Ch.3 Load Out A. 4.32 B. 4.51
- Ch.4 Load In A. 9.15 B. 10.35
Very significant difference. Our two comparable averages are 26.655 seconds to 60.395 seconds, a difference of 33.74 seconds. This is not including your scaffolding load in/out or your ch3 skip load as my runs didn't implement them, and assuming I didn't use quick load on ch1 load in as you didn't either, plus adding a random mid level load on ch2 that isn't on PS4.
Pretty safe to assume this gap would be even more significant if including the other loads you use, as my load in times are roughly double yours. On PS3 I can safely tell you that scaffolding load/in isn't even close to as fast as actually playing through it.
Like I said, the two consoles are incomparable, as I'm sure the others are too. Will be interested to see data from other PS4 runs, but you cannot have PS3 and PS4 on the same leaderboard while load times are included.
Sorry had to find some time. I've edited the rules of the basic categories.
I don't think we ever truly came to a conclusion as to what 100% even was, all measurable collectables?
I think I know what you mean, but just to make sure. You're talking about whole chapter runs, and not the individual levels in those chapters? I guess there'd be no incentive to quit+return for an IL, whereas you're talking about skipping via reloading (like starting on the crane after entering the scaffolding area), right? In which case, I tend to agree with you that it should be disallowed. I'll modify the rules to reflect this.
My follow on question would also be, should it be allowed in any% to begin with? You're effectively just soft resetting the game, given that you're not selecting a chapter and just continuing from where you left off, (a reset warp). In pokemon runs, RTA is also used and soft resetting is permitted. Given that, it makes sense to allow it for any%.
That being said, if we are allow quitting in this category, then why are toys banned in this mode? I think the quit+return aligns more with true any%. If we are calling it any%, but using somewhat arbitrary rules in disallowing toys, it's my opinion that the game should just be played without quit+return, and quit+return be reserved for true any%.
For ILs that aren't whole chapters, ie. 1-1, 1-2, we will have to set up individual timing rules for each. I suppose it would generally just be from when the chapter's selected on the menu until the next area is loaded? Load times for these seem even more ridiculous.
Agreed, lets get some data and then discuss further!
I've had this kind of thing happen before, but it was hard to replicate/explain. I've also been stuck underneath the map, allowing you to see things like the sea monster haha. Unfortunately in that situation, you had to reset to progress as you were trapped in a small room. That happened most often I believe transition from 1-1 to 1-2 IIRC.
I agree it'd be extremely tedious. Regardless of that, we need to check out of fairness. If Glitch's load times are faster than yours than that's an issue. If you compare two of your own runs' load times and notice variability, that's an even bigger issue. Either of these two situations would have to mean removing loads. An alternate solution would be to change to rules to disallow save+quit, keeping the route as is and simplifying load removal to just between chapters (and mini loads- like those you get mid level on PSVita and sometimes PS3).
A few other things I've thought of. It may be possible that the game is inherently different between consoles. This is probably more out there, but was noted for Flower, one of the of PS3 games that was ported to PS4. In that particular case, you could move faster in the PS4 port than in the original PS3 version. Not saying that's the case, but there's a chance other aspects could have changed between them, like certain glitches either being fixed or non-existent on one platform. These kinds of things warrant separation regardless of load times.
I don't think it's as sloppy looking now that it's not separated by any% PS3/PS4 tabs. Many other leader boards use this exact same system, including sm64. This will do fine until we investigate a little more into load times.
