North Carolina, USA2.0.0.8 has only the 5 campaigns from launch while 2.0.2.7 adds in The Passing. The earliest version we currently have with all campaigns is 2.0.9.1 but most skips were patched by then. The only advantage that version has is for Death Toll where a common jump on level 4 is quite a bit easier and there is a major (but very hard and RNG dependent) skip on level 3. So far, we've yet to find anything on the rest of the campaigns that requires 2.0.9.1.
Discord is an option indeed, but I sent you the link in a Twitch message regardless with accompanying instructions, you can find it by going to twitch.tv/messages/inbox while signed in. I sent you 2.0.2.7 since we don't use loading times anymore and it's required for playing LMOE as 2.0.0.8 doesn't have the mode. You can use mutation1 at the end of a map command to load a server on it... hmm, I should add that info to the rules.
Also note that you will need to use a different script as the one that runs on Newest will not run on 2.0.2.7. There is a script specifically for that version in the Resources section.
Let us know if you have any trouble getting things going.
Opinions time! There has been some development with the method to rotate campaigns in the coming Custom Campaigns category that strings all these together.
It turns out that you cannot change the server to another custom map while in one, it looks like it unloads the other VPK's while in a map? Not sure exactly, but it says it can't find the map, so you need to go back to the menu to load a new campaign. At least this makes our choice easier.
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We can require that you go through the campaign menu, select it, start the lobby, pick your character if you'd like, and start it (all while the timer keeps running). The advantage to this is that it's more fair to co-op players that can't host their own server?
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It works if, while in a campaign, you use in the console "disconnect; map <whatever other campaign>" as this brings you by the menu and then immediately loads the selected map. This looks far cleaner to use, but has the disadvantage of not being usable by players unable to host their own server, unless there is a command that can launch a "local" server through the console the same as the campaign lobby does.
Either way this requires other players reconnect each campaign in co-op but there isn't any way around that. I like how the second option is more elegant and less a pain in the ass, but the first makes more sense from a purist point of view.
December 9th 2016,
Icons! New 1st/2nd/3rd place icons to replace the generic trophies. It now features the "4" blood spot logo from L4D2's cover art colored as bronze, silver, and gold. Thanks to Balthazar for them! There is also supposed to be a favicon showing (appears in your tab and next to the URL) of the same logo except classic red, but it isn't loading for me. Might need to investigate this soon?
Moar custom campaigns are up! The latest category additions are "Drop Dead Gorges (Custom)" and "Warcelona (Custom)". Likely 2-3 more customs are coming, stay tuned.
Thought so.
Well, uh, welcome to the cool kid's club. WOOOOO!
Hmm... googling around the only differences I've managed to find is that they can add more mods, nobody has stated that only supers have the ability to edit the leaderboards,
http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/5hmdb http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/95xzk
I am kind of surprised there isn't a basic mod level that allows them to handle accepting/rejecting submissions but not make important leaderboard changes, that's what I initially figured the difference between mod and supermod is too.
Well, one easy way to test it is, Cyberdemon, do you see the "Edit game" and "Edit theme" links in the sidebar on the left?
Huh, so you aren't... the only difference between Supermod and Mod that I've read is that Supermods can appoint new mods. If you trust them to not wreck the leaderboards, you can hopefully trust them to not appoint somebody else that will wreck the leaderboards, I guess?
Really, we don't need Supermods besides some active people in case new mods are necessary in the future, and at the same time it doesn't really matter if everybody is a Supermod either. It doesn't seem like a problem to just bring Cyberdemon in to the lame red sword hilt club?
You'll lose your cool loner status, you green-hilted rebel. Way to conform.
To be honest I like the little green sword hilt better than red. I wish there were blue, though. Blue is the best.
Load times actually aren't a big deal anymore since we've gone loadless, as long as the person submitting takes the steps to make a loadless time available or at least has a video that can have a loadless time grabbed from it. I updated the rules recently to cement this.
I wrote up a big thing about how I think discretion could be OK and addons for preference that aren't meant as an advantage are fine (you know, if it doesn't create an advantage), and then I realized just how complicated that all gets so I've redone it as this paragraph. It pains me to say that somebody's pipe bomb explosion being Spongebob's "OW MY LEG" isn't allowed since it brings them just a bit of joy every time it goes off, but... banning it outright is certainly the simpler, nuclear option. There is also reasoning that, if this is to be the "official" hub for L4D2 speedruns (and looking at the messy state of random YouTube uploads, organized leaderboards are sorely needed), it may follow that the submissions also be the game played largely as it was intended, with its original assets.
I know people love their addons as well and feel they can't play without them. If we make this choice I'd really like to see more opinions... there hasn't really been issue with addons yet I don't think, so it can be given some time. If there has been I'd be interested in hearing how it went.
By the way, under the current rules technically the item radar thing would be allowed since it's HUD. That should probably be fixed in the meantime, just in case...
December 7th 2016,
Updated the "Difficulty/level binds" resource as it had the difficulties written in lowercase causing %s1 to show up when using the bind. That explains why the new runners always have that! Thanks to Portal Rex for bringing it to my attention.
Fixed an exploit (it's a setting) where you could submit a run with the same players but in a different order to duplicate runs on the leaderboards. Previously, if you submitted with player 1 2 3 4, then submit player 1 3 2 4, both runs would show. Now the same player roster will overwrite other runs regardless of their order.
The first of the custom campaign categories are in, woohoo! New "Yama (Custom)" and "Ravenholm (Custom)" categories are at the bottom of the level leaderboards. Check out the first ever submission on Ravenholm by bill_play3, he found some pretty cool stuff. More customs coming soon.
Started updating loadless times. My initial aim will be to get the top three at least of every category, focusing on 1p and co-op first, updated, and more beyond that over time. Already finished some updates to Dead Center and Passing. It takes about a minute not counting download times, so not too bad. Thank god for a Twitch downloader plugin...
Updated a small paragraph to the co-op rules. It now states that video perspective of the first-loading player (likely the host) is required. To all rules, it now states that you must have the red "4" loading icon at least partially visible for the purpose of removing loads and so it can be observed the proper autosplitter is being used and is removing loads correctly (should they use it). This is all to ensure submissions have the ability to grab a proper loadless time.
Welcome! Here you'll find changelogs of things done with the leaderboards so we have a nice history to reference. Questions or comments on any of the changes? Feel free to post!
December 6th 2016,
Created a load removal tutorial and posted it to the Guides section. Quickly wrote a paragraph and inserted it into all rules which references the autosplitter in Resources and this video in the Guides section so the information is out there ASAP. Too late to do other stuff, more coming soon.
Hey pixel, thanks, much appreciated, as well as the support from all of you! There does seem to be quite a bit of support here including from Cyberdemon so hopefully it's alright. I'll do you guys proud. I'll try and work on the rules when I get the chance, they are due for an overhaul with everything that has changed lately. I think I'll also make a changelog thread to keep a history and transparency of whatever changes I've made, that might be a good idea.
THE FINAL LIST!
After 41 days, many hours trying 20+ campaigns (probably), trick checking the good ones, and an apartment move thrown in for good measure, we have finally arrived. My final list! For a very brief explanation of what each campaign offers, see my post above as I've removed that here to fit in other info.
The dry run times are extremely rough, trying to simulate the skips we currently know as accurately as I can and with no horde in the way. After optimizing some (most) are likely to go down, and without the director on some could be difficult and go up, but it gets an idea across of what to expect hopefully. Each finale type is listed so we can see what variety the final roster has. I've removed the four lowest campaigns as I wouldn't consider them myself when much stronger campaigns exist. First, let's calculate their total time...
Yama - Scavenge - 17:00 Drop Dead Gorges - Holdout - 10:00 Warcelona - Gauntlet - 9:30 Ravenholm - Holdout - 10:00 Blood Tracks - Holdout - 11:00 Urban Flight - Scavenge into Holdout - 15:30 Dark Blood - Scavenge - 9:30 Death Aboard - Holdout - 12:00 Detour Ahead - Gauntlet - 14:00 Highway to Hell - Holdout - 12:00
TOTAL: 2:00:30
Pretty long! We'll need to remove some, and here is where it gets difficult. What follows is my final recommended list with campaigns painstakingly taken out. This considers all tricks and how each campaign feels to run, I did almost all of them tonight so I'm pretty fresh on it. That said, deciding to take some out was not easy...
Yama - Scavenge - 17:00 Drop Dead Gorges - Holdout - 10:00 Warcelona - Gauntlet - 9:30 Ravenholm - Holdout - 10:00 Urban Flight - Scavenge into Holdout - 15:30 Death Aboard - Holdout - 12:00 Dark Blood - Scavenge - 9:30
TOTAL: 1:23:30
Detour Ahead is long and a bit weak for overall solo skips so I barely passed on it, while Death Aboard ended up having some really cool solo skips with an awesome propane tank drop on map 4 so it went way up in my mind. Dark Blood has interesting optimizations with the most difficult Scavenge by far, and Urban Flight has some nice optimizations throughout. I'm flexible on the last three on the list if a consensus wants to replace one with Detour Ahead or something. Possibly even drop one campaign, although once we're practiced I don't think the runtime will be too bad. The more opinions the better!
I hope putting this post here is a good enough place, but, I filled out one of the 50 different attendance forms (the last one, it probably was) saying I was not able to do it anymore but we're on the schedule anyway, and on top of that we're slotted for a time several hours away from any of the estimates I gave at a time now where I'd never dream to be available.
So, uh, I guess you guys should fix that because we'll definitely never be there, like I submitted weeks ago...... I didn't come back to check because it should have already been taken care of. I've only checked now because one of my viewers in my stream tonight mentioned how they'd be seeing me in the morning doing L4D2 co-op, and I was like, what?
Hope the rest of the marathon goes well.
Death Aboard 2 has some significant solo skips, I must say. Level 1 has a pretty nifty and easy common jump at the crescendo where you jump up the side of the hanging railing and then wait for a common to climb to get a little boost up. Level 2 has some more nice movement, either a small common jump or a good crouch hop to get on a door, then you walk along a clip with a weak pusher, aiming against the pusher to avoid falling off (it's easy). I was so happy to foil the author's attempts to stop me from getting across! Level 3 has another common jump to go OOB which skips a fair bit, and in co-op can skip a ton with an extra throwable boost or especially grenade launch. This common jump is hard, though. Level 4 has a nice propane tank fall cancel near the end that saves a ton of time and isn't too difficult. All around quite a bit going on.
Highway to Hell isn't too bad, mostly movement optimizations and tricky jumps. Level 1 has a skip to a fence right away by jumping out of a window, then an easy jump to a railing to skip a horde being called. Level 2 has a potential skip over a fence with a horde next to it but it may not be worth it. Level 3 has a very small movement tech at the end to get over a fence. Level 4 is the big one, with a common jump to get on a fence and pretty much right to the exit, it may be a minute to run the map.
Trick checked everything I needed to! Next, and last, is to finish going through the campaigns with the director off to get a rough estimate on how much time it takes based on the tricks we currently know. I have to admit, ordering this list in the Blood Tracks through Highway to Hell range is a bit difficult. The list now includes the time estimates next to each campaign that I currently have.
Yama (beautiful, solo optimizations, skillful scavenge finale) - 17:00 Drop Dead Gorges (nice solo optimizations with some difficult jumps) - 10:00 Warcelona (ridiculously strong in co-op skips, nice solo skip in map 3) Ravenholm (nice common jumps in many places, good grenade launcher potential) Blood Tracks (light movement tech mostly in solo) Urban Flight (nice big and small optimizations spread throughout) Dark Blood 2 (many solo optimizations, scavenge finale heavy on can throws) Death Aboard 2 (big solo skips on every map) Detour Ahead (potentially most difficult solo movement tech) Highway to Hell (small optimizations mostly) Suicide Blitz 2 (Pretty skipless and many corridors, this may keep falling down in placing) I Hate Mountains 2 (Designed well but entirely trickless) City 17 Energy Crisis (this looks worse as time goes on)
Thanks for the opinions!
Bronze/Silver/Gold Jockeys would be great, but unfortunately the detail of the Jockey is going to get lost just as the throwables did. There just aren't enough pixels to do anything but the simplest thing, we're lucky the hand even worked out as well as it did, really.
Time for another collage, I colored the silver a bit darker, removed the throwables, and added new variants that I like to call "bloodier" which has more of the blood trail on the left so it's a bit more obvious that it's supposed to be based on the L4D symbol. I think this is probably the last I can think to do with it, so likely one of these sets will be the winner. I'd love to get them uploaded to see how they look on the page, too.
Wheeeeeeelp, that sure does make Ravenholm 2 a lot easier, wow... how consistently are the bots right behind you when you reach the exit, and have you tried with the director on to ensure they don't get stuck on zombies?
Very nice find.
Just about done with trick checking (as you saw last night), once I have the rough time estimates done I'll be ready to get my final list together that we can cross-reference with each other to figure out what goes in and how much time it takes. About to be in the middle of my apartment move so I'll need a little bit to get the rest done, but we're almost there.
Spammy triple post time rather than edit in case anybody has already seen the previous posts.
I started on the icons and sort of got on a roll... an hour flying by later and here we are. Looking for any opinions you guys can give, more ideas, or any icons you think are definitely good. Surprisingly, the detailing isn't too bad... the throwables got a bit lost, especially the golden bile, but the hand is respectable. Personally, I'd say both the L4D "4" colored and the hand seem like decent choices. First image is a collage of the large versions so you know what it's supposed to look like, the second is a collage of the properly-sized icons.
Wow, alright, I didn't realize those icons were 16 x 16, that really is limiting options... the L4D2 launch icon colored bronze/silver/gold is actually my favored one so far, I think. It looks like it's too small for the hand with the fingers but I'll go forward with it anyway because it's close. Common/Witch/Tank I'm definitely not even trying.
Geez this thing is small.
Nah, the LMOE wall was just a campaign promise, nobody ¤really¤ expected me to carry through with it. We all know DarootLeafstorm is never going to pay seconds for it, and what am I to do, tax other hard-working runners their seconds? That'd cause civil war! Anarchy! In seriousness, though, I may as well answer since people know I am not exactly a fan of the LMOE of scripted categories, but they won't be going anywhere. I wouldn't want to make DarootLeafstorm (Treescrub) a sad panda.
Anyway, thanks, guys! Icon-wise I have some ideas to play around with and when I get a good chance I'm going to throw some sets together to post here to see how they look when they're tiny. So far the ideas are...
Common/Witch/Tank - Probably a bad idea that won't look good small, but eh... might as well see how it goes.
Molotov/Pipe/Bile - Generally the order of importance you want them in from a speedrun, with molotov = bronze and pipe = silver working pretty well. Bile it falls apart a bit, maybe color it gold? Then we basically have Jarate...
L4D hand showing 3/2/1 fingers - MrFailzz's idea, I quite like this one if it looks alright when it's small. Might try a set with its regular green color and a set with each hand colored for its placing in case the green isn't obvious.
L4D "4" icon - Not bad, I wonder if the number could be changed to 3/2/1? Might be weird to have a "4" in there when it's meant for top three placing, even if it's colored. I'll try some variations of this too.
As for the loadless times, an alternate to shifting them to the with loads columns, assuming it doesn't work which I don't expect it to, is to just mirror the times for now so it's more obvious. Over a long period of time into next year I would like to update them here and there until many are done since there are some close to each other that might unfairly shift around without loadless being calculated. Unfortunately, any runs without an available video will have to be left alone, hopefully it isn't too many.
I Hate Mountains 2 is skipless clip city. The skips I thought may have existed are blocked with player blockers instead, and try as I might I just couldn't find anything for solo or co-op at all. The only small optimization is jumping a small chasm in the train car area of map.... 3? But it isn't really worth any time, and there is nothing elsewhere. Such a shame, it's designed well, apparently a bit too well.
Dark Blood 2 has some nice bits, quite a bit of solo optimization with jumps and curls. Level 1 has a mostly easy common jump at the very start which, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, skips a ton of the map to where I'd say it can definitely be completed in 30 seconds, but at least the jump isn't hard as long as you get common spawns right away. Level 2 doesn't have much until the end where there is a decent dangerous-looking (not really) jump around the edge of the ship and then a nice optimization jump into the saferoom. Level 3 has a common jump that may be too hard and then some curls around fences to skip a lot. The finale is the most difficult scavenge finale so far that pretty much tests your can juggling skills to the limit, so there is going to be huge variances in time between players based on their can management skills which is a good thing. This is going up the list a bit.
Yama (beautiful, solo optimizations, skillful scavenge finale Drop Dead Gorges (nice solo optimizations with some difficult jumps) Warcelona (ridiculously strong in co-op skips, nice solo skip in map 3) Ravenholm (nice common jumps in many places, good grenade launcher potential) Blood Tracks (light movement tech mostly in solo) Urban Flight (nice big and small optimizations spread throughout) Dark Blood 2 (many solo optimizations, scavenge finale heavy on can throws) Detour Ahead (potentially most difficult solo movement tech) Highway to Hell¤ Death Aboard 2¤¤¤ Suicide Blitz 2 (Pretty skipless and many corridors, this may keep falling down in placing) I Hate Mountains 2 (Designed well but entirely trickless) City 17 Energy Crisis (this looks worse as time goes on)
