New South Wales, Australia
SupporterHello everyone,
As the community slowly continues to grow and different categories and different ways of speedrunning the games are becoming more popular, there have been many requests to change some of the ways in which the categories for each of these games are represented on the leaderboards.
The following are some changes that we feel may help make certain categories more approachable and better represented on the leaderboard.
1. Moving No HPT/ No Major Exploits / Any% categories from category extension into the main categories as a sub-category.
We feel that the NME/NHPT categories represented a much desired way to speedrun the game. They are essentially the equivalent of what could be considered "Glitchless" as far as Mortal Kombat is concerned. While “High Punch Trick” (HPT) is a lot more challenging and a lot more fun than it looks, it does devolve the speedrun significantly by removing a large strategic portion of the game which can otherwise be a very complex and enjoyable part of speedrunning.
The NHPT/NME categories have since received a considerable amount of competition proving that there is a desire to run the game this way and therefore we feel it deserves its spot on the main leaderboard as opposed to being on the Category Extensions Board.
In Regards to WolfMAME INP requirements on No HPT/NME/Any%: Our approach to the Category Extensions board has generally been "its for fun, its for the memes" etc, and we have not enforced any harsh requirements for them. However we feel that moving it into a main category does necessitate the need for more appropriate legitimacy requirements on the top runs. Therefore we would like to require WolfMAME INP's for NME/No HPT/Any% for any top time runs in these categories going forward.
This requirement will be implemented the same way it is required for the current main category runs (only required if the run is faster than a certain threshold). NOTE: We aren’t disputing any currently submitting runs for these categories and current runs with no INP will NOT be removed, it is specifically a requirement "from this point forward" and will NOT retro-actively disqualify any runs from the leaderboard.
Most people who are running in these categories are already using INP's anyway, but the ones who aren’t are strongly advised to learn how to record a WolfMAME INP if they wish to continue running these categories at sub-threshold times. You can find a guide on how to do this in any of the guide sections for MK1,2,3,U3 and if you have any trouble getting it to work PLEASE CONTACT ME. I will walk you through it.
Currently we are only intending to make these changes for the "Arcade" platform categories. However if you would like to see similar sub-categories implemented for some of the consoles where these categories can apply, please let us know.
2. Mortal Kombat 3/Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 - Renaming of "Credit Skip" category to "Standard".
As it currently is, whether or not Credit Skip is used is a binary choice and the category names reflect that. However with the addition of NME and Any% sub categories it then becomes a little bit more confusing which category is the "main" category to anyone observing the leaderboard.
We feel that "Credit Skip" should still be considered the main category, it represents what we feel is the basic way of running the game (Hardest difficulty, Hardest Tower, Anything goes). To reflect this, "Standard" is the best name we could come up with to make it obvious to anyone observing. Suggestions for a better name are welcome.
3. (SNES) Mortal Kombat 3/ Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 - Separating Soundless runs into a sub-category.
Back when the Soundless exploit was found on SNES MK3/UMK3, there was some discussion about whether or not it should be allowed. The community was smaller and there was no complaints or issues about allowing the exploit and the main runners at the time were happy to go ahead using it so we allowed it.
However since then multiple people have made it known to us that they don't wish to run the game this way and it has squashed any appeal the speedrun might have had. We don’t believe in unnecessarily disqualifying runs on a technicality so we are planning to move all runs that abused turning off sound to a separate category that we will call "Soundless". Hopefully this will make running MK3/UMK3 on SNES much more appealing to onlookers and hopefully generate some more runners.
4. Using the "Individual Levels" Leaderboard for "Character Specific" runs.
The main categories have done a lot to keep the speedrun simple and approachable and digging into the game to find "which character is the fastest" for any given category has been a fairly challenging endeavour. Seeing the title of "Optimal character" change over the years has been quite interesting and in some cases I believe it is still yet to be proven, (MK3 in particular).
However there is a lot left to be discovered and lot more fun to be had running the game by trying to master certain specific characters. The current method of just using a filter with the "Character Variable" is far from satisfying, and frankly most people dont even know how to use filters on the leaderboard so any visibility or credit you could get from mastering a specific non-optimal character of your choice is basically non-existent. We would like to give runners a better way of going for these goals, however we also like the way the current speedrun categories work and don't want to disrupt it or convolute the leaderboard with 10+ main categories to support every character.
The best alternative we have found on some of the other leaderboards we moderate is to use the Individual Levels leaderboard and make each character a "Level", see Example for Street Fighter III: Third Strike - Main category: https://www.speedrun.com/street_fighter_iii_3rd_strike , IL categories: https://www.speedrun.com/street_fighter_iii_3rd_strike/individual_levels. The individual level leaderboard will not affect the main leaderboard categories in any way and if you dont like it, you can literally just ignore it. Any runs submitted can qualify for both the main category runs AND its respective Individual character run simultaneously and you may submit the same run to both categories if you wish.
We hope that these changes accurately reflect community desires. Making these changes will cause a lot of work for us since we will need to copy a lot of runs from one leaderboard to another. Please give us feedback on your thoughts about these changes, we will NOT be making any of these changes if there is any significant objection from the community. We want to make sure that any decisions comply with what the community wishes to see, so please comment down below with your feedback.
Hello everyone,
As the community slowly continues to grow and different categories and different ways of speedrunning the games are becoming more popular, there have been many requests to change some of the ways in which the categories for each of these games are represented on the leaderboards.
The following are some changes that we feel may help make certain categories more approachable and better represented on the leaderboard.
1. Moving No HPT/ No Major Exploits / Any% categories from category extension into the main categories as a sub-category.
We feel that the NME/NHPT categories represented a much desired way to speedrun the game. They are essentially the equivalent of what could be considered "Glitchless" as far as Mortal Kombat is concerned. While “High Punch Trick” (HPT) is a lot more challenging and a lot more fun than it looks, it does devolve the speedrun significantly by removing a large strategic portion of the game which can otherwise be a very complex and enjoyable part of speedrunning.
The NHPT/NME categories have since received a considerable amount of competition proving that there is a desire to run the game this way and therefore we feel it deserves its spot on the main leaderboard as opposed to being on the Category Extensions Board.
In Regards to WolfMAME INP requirements on No HPT/NME/Any%: Our approach to the Category Extensions board has generally been "its for fun, its for the memes" etc, and we have not enforced any harsh requirements for them. However we feel that moving it into a main category does necessitate the need for more appropriate legitimacy requirements on the top runs. Therefore we would like to require WolfMAME INP's for NME/No HPT/Any% for any top time runs in these categories going forward.
This requirement will be implemented the same way it is required for the current main category runs (only required if the run is faster than a certain threshold). NOTE: We aren’t disputing any currently submitted runs for these categories and current runs with no INP will NOT be removed, it is specifically a requirement "from this point forward" and will NOT retro-actively disqualify any runs from the leaderboard.
Most people who are running in these categories are already using INP's anyway, but the ones who aren’t are strongly advised to learn how to record a WolfMAME INP if they wish to continue running these categories at sub-threshold times. You can find a guide on how to do this in any of the guide sections for MK1,2,3,U3 and if you have any trouble getting it to work PLEASE CONTACT ME. I will walk you through it.
Currently we are only intending to make these changes for the "Arcade" platform categories. However if you would like to see similar sub-categories implemented for some of the consoles where these categories can apply, please let us know.
2. Mortal Kombat 3/Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 - Renaming of "Credit Skip" category to "Standard".
As it currently is, whether or not Credit Skip is used is a binary choice and the category names reflect that. However with the addition of NME and Any% sub categories it then becomes a little bit more confusing which category is the "main" category to anyone observing the leaderboard.
We feel that "Credit Skip" should still be considered the main category, it represents what we feel is the basic way of running the game (Hardest difficulty, Hardest Tower, Anything goes). To reflect this, "Standard" is the best name we could come up with to make it obvious to anyone observing. Suggestions for a better name are welcome.
3. (SNES) Mortal Kombat 3/ Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 - Separating Soundless runs into a sub-category.
Back when the Soundless exploit was found on SNES MK3/UMK3, there was some discussion about whether or not it should be allowed. The community was smaller and there was no complaints or issues about allowing the exploit and the main runners at the time were happy to go ahead using it so we allowed it.
However since then multiple people have made it known to us that they don't wish to run the game this way and it has squashed any appeal the speedrun might have had. We don’t believe in unnecessarily disqualifying runs on a technicality so we are planning to move all runs that abused turning off sound to a separate category that we will call "Soundless". Hopefully this will make running MK3/UMK3 on SNES much more appealing to onlookers and hopefully generate some more runners.
4. Using the "Individual Levels" Leaderboard for "Character Specific" runs.
The main categories have done a lot to keep the speedrun simple and approachable and digging into the game to find "which character is the fastest" for any given category has been a fairly challenging endeavour. Seeing the title of "Optimal character" change over the years has been quite interesting and in some cases I believe it is still yet to be proven, (MK3 in particular).
However there is a lot left to be discovered and lot more fun to be had running the game by trying to master certain specific characters. The current method of just using a filter with the "Character Variable" is far from satisfying, and frankly most people dont even know how to use filters on the leaderboard so any visibility or credit you could get from mastering a specific non-optimal character of your choice is basically non-existent. We would like to give runners a better way of going for these goals, however we also like the way the current speedrun categories work and don't want to disrupt it or convolute the leaderboard with 10+ main categories to support every character.
The best alternative we have found on some of the other leaderboards we moderate is to use the Individual Levels leaderboard and make each character a "Level", see Example for Street Fighter III: Third Strike - Main category: https://www.speedrun.com/street_fighter_iii_3rd_strike , IL categories: https://www.speedrun.com/street_fighter_iii_3rd_strike/individual_levels
The individual level leaderboard will not affect the main leaderboard categories in any way and if you dont like it, you can literally just ignore it. Any runs submitted can qualify for both the main category runs AND its respective Individual character run simultaneously and you may submit the same run to both categories if you wish.
We hope that these changes accurately reflect community desires. Making these changes will cause a lot of work for us since we will need to copy a lot of runs from one leaderboard to another. Please give us feedback on your thoughts about these changes, we will NOT be making any of these changes if there is any significant objection from the community. We want to make sure that any decisions comply with what the community wishes to see, so please comment down below with your feedback.
I was helping Dusty route Dimitri and I came across this:
It looks like as long as you connect one "shoryuken" with Dimitri you can then fireball spam him and he wont block. If you time each one correctly you can loop it infinitely.
After messing with this a bit .. I think its improved slightly by using standing LK instead of crouching for some unknown reason. I was able to go st LK into cr HP and loop Pyron fairly consistently on T3. Using cr LK or cr LP on T3 seemed to make it a lot harder to chain ... no idea why.
Im assuming you mean to play the game on your Cell Phone?
Sorry :( .. We do not accept phone emulators.
Phone emulators are very innacurate, even though it might look like it runs fine they are almost always having a slight advantage due to how innacurate they are.
Also there are many many different ones with varying degrees of accuracy which is impossible for us to verify.
If you mean to use a cell phone to "record your run video" but you are playing on a properly supported platform, then that is okay but you must make sure to capture all of the game footage including all of the rules (show difficulty etc).
Thank you so much Pac! You started something amazing .. good luck on your endeavours!
I was using 0.149 for a good while, but I switched to 0.220 sometime earlier this year and I havent regretted it. Works beautifully on everything I've ran since.
Just posting this here for anyone else to look at. I havent dived into it myself yet, but this happened on Kombat King's stream a few weeks back.
Spawning OOB: https://www.twitch.tv/the_kombat_king/clip/CrowdedPunchyWalrusBabyRage?filter=clips&range=30d&sort=time
Talking to Sindel before the fight: https://www.twitch.tv/the_kombat_king/clip/JazzyAntsySalmonPeteZaroll?filter=clips&range=30d&sort=time
If you notice how he talked to sindel it repositioned his character. I believe this caused him to be placed OOB, so that when the fight ended it would spawn him there. He couldnt find any way to get back in bounds though but he was only streaming casually at the time and couldnt put much time into it.
Theoretically if you can reproduce this, then somehow get back in bounds at will you could place yourself at the trigger point to exit the area and load the next one. I plan to investigate this myself at some point, until then .. anyone is welcome to try and make something of it.
GL!
yes, There is a safe strat.
Begin the round walking back .. most of the time he will charge. If he charges across or charges into the air you will be out of range and you can uppercut him. If he fireballs and you are quick enough, you can teleport punch on him and then Spear. It's a little rarer to happen though, in general its better to play around the charge happening. You are just looking for 1 spear or uppercut to get the strat started.
Then: Run in close before he gets up and LP, LP, LP, Spear at point blank range > Uppercut > repeat.
The first 2-3 punches may or may not get blocked but either way when you go for the spear he will have been pushed to a distance in which he will 100% try to do a counter move but your spear will be faster than anything he can do and you will always hit. If he blocks the spear its because you didnt do enough punches to "push him back".
You should be able to use this to beat him pretty easily, and the strat is useable all the way down to around the 4:50 ish mark, so it will be a while until you need to resort to the harder strat in order to get a good PB.
If you are doing a "combo high punch" such as an elbow or whatever, start with a single low punch first before going into high punches. This forces it out of "combo mode" essentially and allows you to string together normal high punches. Other than that you just need to time it so that every punch is delayed "just enough" so that the opponent gets in a single frame of attack before the next punch hits.
I find the best way to learn this timing is to time each punch with the "ow" sound that the enemy makes from the last punch. If you get it right, you will get into a perfect rythm where your input presses synchronize with the enemies pain sounds.
Its definitely not as easy as it looks, and its very challenging to keep it up for the entire run without making any mistakes. Just remember, if your opponent stumbled back .. you were punching too fast. If he broke out of it and attacked you, you were punching too slow.
There is a very small chance for your opponent to break out of it with a throw regardless however, this is RNG. It actually happens more commonly on fight 1 and 2, seeing it in any fights beyond that is extremely rare but it does happen. Due to that though I recommend pushing to fight 3 and making a save state there to properly practice the technique.
Hope this helps! Good luck!
Thanks for pointing this out.
No idea why GB wasn't listed .. that was dumb lol.. Sorry about that. Fixed that and added SGB2/GBP as well. Thanks!
Well then .. that should be interesting to see lol.
I'm fine with separating platforms if you believe its necessary.
It makes sense to me, with Amiga vs DOS its usually going to have some kind of difference that necessitates it. I ran into this on Moonstone, not only does it have very different play speeds but also there are official versions on the Amiga that have fixed RNG. Its not the sort of thing you would expect but when you try to speedrun it, it becomes glaringly obvious.
Hey @RaGeNyC ! Great to hear from you!
I strongly suggest joining the discord if you havent already! .. Welcome to the Speedrun.com leaderboards!
Hey man, sorry for the late reply. Been a little swamped lately.
We're entirely open to having 100%/Any% categories if you're interested. What would the 100% category consist of? Just getting all 60 treasures?
For the main categories, Only RED is allowed (to enable Boxer/Juni/Juli as playable).
If you wish to perform runs using the game modes provided by the other time codes, let us know first and it will be put into a separate category, assuming you complete the run.
I agree. I would maybe say I would be ok with a "Cheat/Warp" category, but marked as misc .. and only if people are REALLY keen on it. But by default I feel it shouldn't be allowed .. especially in a main category.
I consider myself low authority on this board though, since I have yet to run the game .. so I defer to @NerdyNester 's judgement.
Ok. If you were legitimately here with the intention of speedrunning this game and were requesting a category that you wished to speedrun then I formally apologize.
And let me make some constructive suggestions for you. If you wish to be seen as sincere in your efforts to become a part of a speedrun community, don't post from an account which has a years worth of history of you requesting leaderboard changes but having 0 speedruns on your account. This does not look good, not in the slightest. Maybe you are indeed not a troll, but there are in fact plenty of them out there doing exactly what it looks like you are doing, so in my defense that's how I came to that conclusion.
Furthermore, you began this thread not just by "asking for support of lesser difficulties" but by stating "can anyone actually beat Mortal Kombat I without spamming?". This statement implies some kind of lack of skill on behalf of the runners. I'm not sure how else to percieve this statement, it is insulting .. so I would suggest in future being more mindful of your approach.
But just so you know, yes we can .. all of us can .. it just so happens that the fastest strategy involves spamming. This is speedrunning, the fastest strategy wins out, as it should.
We COULD create a more interesting category which banned the use of said optimal "spam strategy", which is what I initially offered and you dismissed. So if your concern was to have a more interesting run which did not require spamming, you could have had it, but you refused it.
And finally, you requested that an easier difficulty be added which would somehow allow you to not spam as much? This I am still baffled by and you still have not elaborated on. As I said before, if you make the game easier then even simpler and more spammy strategies just become optimal. What you were stating and what you were asking doesn't make any sense. Maybe if you could be more clearer in explaining your reasoning in the future, it would be much more helpful.
Basically, the fact that your suggestion did not appear to have any cohesive logic behind it, coupled with the fact that your account appeared to be approaching leaderboards at random and telling them to add categories without actually providing any speedruns to follow them up. This is what lead me to believe that you were trolling us.
If I'm wrong on that assessment then I apologize, but could you also tell me where I went wrong in my assessment? Because thats what all of the information I have points to in this case, and you haven't given me any kind of evidence to make me believe otherwise.
We discussed it and agreed.
Categories Split. Thanks for the research @sp0ck1
