Load Remover for PC Runs is now available in the Resources

This is a Load Remover ONLY and WILL NOT Autostart or Autosplit

Board updates are complete (for now)

Any% has been changed to Any% 2.0 and Earlier and Any% 2.1 and Later

Any% used to be it's own category with the version subcategory

This was changed due to the fact that Console can't run Any% 2.0 and Earlier and there wasn't a way to have the Version Subcategory only on the PC Platform Subcategory. So the main category Any% was split into Version Categories so the Platform Subcategory only applied to the proper Categories

Console Runs now being Accepted

Console run acceptance was delayed by a few weeks to allow for the development of a PC Load Remover, and these updates could go live at the same time

Timing Method Changes

Currently, until the PC Board gets manually retimed (this will take a while) submit both RTA and LRT for ALL PC FULL GAME RUNS

The PC board will still use RTA as the default sort for Ranking, but will eventually use LRT only for FULL GAME RUNS

Full Game Console Runs will use RTA

All IL runs both Console and PC will use IGT (the time on your Dungeon Score Screen)

At this current point in time I'm nearing the end of testing out a Load Remover for PC runs that we will use going forward. The entire PC board will be updated to LRT eventually, but in order to do so I will have to manually retime old runs based on the load remover behavior which will take quite some time, so the board will have both RTA and LRT as timing methods until that is complete.

Do any runners plan on running this game again? If so I could ignore retiming those runs and save a lot of work.

Will update when the Load Remover is released

Should also mention now a board split will be 100% necessary anyway

I've started development on an autosplitter and currently have a working load remover for PC in testing, so I'm probably just gonna wait and do ALLLLL of the board updates and changes at the same time once that project is completed

I only compared the 1 Any% run I did on Xbox Series X and the 1 Any% run I did on PS5 Slim and here was the results of the load times

These results obviously may vary from run to run and console to console. Not sure what Xbox Series S would look like or PS5 Pro

But only a total difference of 151 Milliseconds throughout the entirety of the run

I think there was a few here and there I didn't analyze, but this was the majority of the main ones anyway

I didn't compare these to PC yet, as there's still ways PC can save time that console can't (quicksave and reload to skip cutscenes etc), I think it'll be best to have PC and Console separated.

But in regards to Xbox Series X and PS5, they are more than close enough to share a console category, unless further data proves otherwise

Upon further testing of the PS5 version

I have found a way to exploit the save bug and basically skip the entire game

I just pulled off a run that was 1m50s333ms

When using the checkpoint reset button at the bottom of the pause menu, it seems to lock the players position no matter what save file or checkpoint gets loaded, so I essentially ran the game up to the Ms. Wyvern boss fight, used the checkpoint reset, beat the game, then started a new game. Immediately killed myself in the tutorial and loaded into the Ms. Wyvern Boss fight

This video includes the Ms. Wyvern Boss Fight where I used the checkpoint reset, then started a new game

Going off the SRDC time rulings

Time starts (roughly 3:39) after the opening cutscene on the first frame of player movement

Time ends (roughly 5:30) after interacting with the doorway following Ms. Wyvern's defeat

For this reason, if we assume this gets patched in the future, this won't be possible for very long

I'm going to propose a specific rule addition for console

"All runs must start on the main menu and have no previous save data"

With the new release of the console version of Sir Whoopass the time has now come to figure out how we should structure the board for both PC and Console.

Due to the fact that this game has very little runners, there isn't really a need for a seperated board. However there's some other things to keep in mind.

1. PC will always have the ability to pick and choose which game version to run, and split categories as they're currently set. Console will only ever be 3.1.1 and newer

2. After testing a few things on PS5 console does not have the ability to quicksave/and reload. Making rng manipulation and other quicksave/quickload shenanigans much harder/slower or impossible.

3. A split Console/PC board would allow us in the future to use a load remover for timing on PC, and Console would remain RTA.

4. A shared Console/PC may very well discourage console runs due to the quicksave/quickload tricks we can't do on Console.

5. We can always merge the boards together if needed. A seperated board would also give runners the opportunity to run PC and Console categories if they choose.

Thoughts and opinions on the matter are more than welcome. I'll leave this here for at least a week before making any decision official.

Also due to the current save data bug on PS5 (pending xbox confirmation) some rules may change slightly or be added for console

Side note,

I've only been able to test the PS5 version, so if anyone would be willing to test the XBOX version I'd be happy to learn of your findings.

I've been giving a lot of thought about where to fit the latest updates into the speedrun.com leaderboard

When I became moderator for the board my goal was to be able to allow anyone the opportunity to down patch and run any game version they want, while also making sure there's a spot for the latest release(s). This was done because the 1.0 version is way different and way faster than the version 2 updates, therefore requiring separation.

My initial thought was to just create a new category for V3 runs. With Version 3.0.9 now blocking off the trial of strength from early entrance my first thought was that the latest version (3.0.9) would be slower than the previous versions as a result. This change doesn't appear to change the overall length of the run by a whole lot and would still require a very clean optimized run for it to even matter

At this point the 3.0.9 version any% route is the same as the 2.X versions, but with the addition of being able to skip the trial boss fights, version 3 is faster and easier

Considering version 1 has 4 runs on the board and version 2 has only 3 runs. I think at this point the best option is just to add the 3.0 runs to the existing 2.1 or later versions category

In addition to that, i think it would also be beneficial for clarity to change the categories to "Version 1 and Version 2.0 or later"

Version 2.0 was lumped into the version 1 runs due to the lack of the Ms Wyvern boss fight, making 2.0 a faster run than any possible 2.1 or later run. However skipping the trial bosses in version 3 I believe would more than make up for this, so 2.0 and 3.0 could now exist in the same category.

I think a Version 1 category and a Version 2.0+ category would be the best way to go for now. Unfortunately a game that receives regular updates can still affect these groupings, but at this point I don't think we'll see any major run changes in the near future, and we just don't need a new category for every single update

Thoughts?

Big Boi is skippable now as well, and I've done 3 runs so far on Version 3.0.8

However, after speaking with the Devs, they've issued a few hotfixes since the initial 3.0 release and I think at this point it would be best to wait until the updates slow down and we get a release that will stick for a while before adding any 3.0 runs to the board. Some of the hotfix patches were only out for a day or so before there was another hotfix. I think by waiting until we get an update that will stick for quite a while, this will also avoid having to downpatch the 3.0 version

The devs are very supportive of the speedrunning aspect of their game and I feel it's only right to try to accommodate that by always trying to have a place on the board for the latest version.

With the release of the 3.0 update so far I've found a few changes

Most notably, Big Daddy Groot is now skippable which is a very nice time save, but getting the Mount Vehicle by glitching through the cave is no longer possible

At this point I'm thinking it would be best to have 3.0 in it's own category as well, I do believe 3.0 will be faster to run than the 2.1 versions but slower than the 1.0 versions.

Any runner feedback would be appreciated

In Version 1.0.5 it looks like the Bunny Headband and the Bunny Hat both give +30% movement speed. In the newer versions, The Bunny Headband gives you +15% movement speed and the Bunny Hat gives you +30% movement speed, but I've only been able to get the bunny hat at a higher level.

It is a very simple process, if you check the resources I've added a down patching how to video as well as the ID numbers you'll need to do that! You can run any version you want

In regards to an IL Leaderboard

The old versions don't include a score screen for the dungeons, and all versions don't include a score screen for the Trials

So, we can either restrict the IL board to ONLY game versions containing dungeons with score screens, or all versions and use RTA, or a mix and match. If the Dungeon provides a score screen that time will be used, if not RTA.

Personally, I think restricting the IL board to newer versions with score screens is the way to go. There's plenty of them, and verification will be much easier as a result. Not to mention in the older Versions, some Ancient Ruins have been converted to Caves in the Newer Versions, and do not contain energy orbs

Thank you for your response and insight

The reason the rules about the timer were changed was to be more in line with the rules and guidelines here: https://www.speedrun.com/support/learn/moderation-rules

To further expend in this, I also moderate for Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 which is also RTA, and whether a timer is on screen or not we still double check that the timer on screen is accurate to the actual RTA

I understand where you're coming from so I'm not trying to dismiss that, just giving a further explanation.

If an autosplitter is ever created to remove load times, that would likely have to change, but that would fall into the "good reason" exception to require one

Apologies for the length of this post, but I just wanted to be thorough with my explanation and reasonings to hopefully minimize any confusion

This thread will stay open for at least a week before any changes are made

Over the last week I’ve had several discussions regarding the current state of the leaderboard and there seems to be pretty unanimous support to bring the old 1.0 runs back to the board as well as running that version again.

Of course before making any actual changes, I would like to present the idea that I have as well as the reasoning(s) behind it, and give the community a chance to voice their approval, disapproval, comments, concerns, and/or questions on the matter.

I have read through the speedrunning channel of the Atomic Elbow Discord Server, the forum posts here on srdc, as well as the patch notes for every update this game has received since release and over the last several days I’ve been brainstorming the best way to achieve this goal. My goal here is to preserve runs that have already been done on previous versions, as well as give runners the opportunity to choose which version they would like to run, while also avoiding another potential board reset in the event of another major update.

While the 1.0 version of Sir Whoopass offers the fastest overall speedrun, I feel like it would be a disservice to the developers, who work really hard to deliver quality updates for this game, to not have a spot on this board for the current version as well. However, it is also unrealistic to have a category for every single update, so some grouping needs to be done. Obviously, certain versions will benefit and other versions will likely get overlooked and ignored. But, I feel like it should be up to runner preference to run the version that they choose and have a place for it.

With that being said, I feel like it would be best at the current time to have 2 main leaderboard categories. Version 2.0 and earlier, and Version 2.1 and newer for the following reasons:

1. While Version 2.0 brought major changes to the speedrun across the board, it still does not include the end Boss Fight against Ms. Wyvern. Grouping Version 2.0 in with the older 1.0 Versions will give all versions in the “Version 2.0 and Earlier” category the same exact end point to stop the time.

2. With Version 2.0 not containing the Ms. Wyvern Boss Fight, it would likely be a faster speedrun than the current version of the game, which would over shadow the more current versions and forcing players to Down Patch to be on a level playing field.

3. Version 2.0 was out for less than 2 months before the 2.1 update which added the Ms. Wyvern Boss Fight. Version 2.0 is vastly different from the 1.0 speedruns, but also missing a key element in Version 2.1 and later speedruns. Having a separate category for this one single Version just doesn’t make much sense.

Going forward, in addition to Runner Name, Time, and Date

I would also like to add the following information to all submissions: Difficulty (informational purposes only) and Version Number (for grouping purposes and informational purposes)

If the community is on board with this, I will do my best to bring any Archived Runs back to the board in the appropriate categories, and invite anyone with a run from a previous version to resubmit those runs (submitted with the original run date if available, for informational purposes)

In addition to the main categories In the Newer Versions, each dungeon has a score screen upon completion, giving the player information on enemy encounters, wheels of cheese, chests found, and TIME

I think it could also be beneficial (and really fun) to have an Individual Level Board, to see who can be the fastest runner for their favorite dungeons.

For the proposed new main category changes I’ve put together a new list of proposed rules to handle this change Changes from the current game rules are in bold

“Absolutely no use of the developer console.

All runs must start on either the main menu or pause menu to verify game version (as of June 2024)

Time starts after the main cutscene when the player takes control of the MC - Runners can create a savegame here.

Version 2.0 and earlier

Time stops when entering the room to obtain the Legendary Villain Beating Artifact

Version 2.1 and later

Time stops when interacting with the portal after defeating Ms. Wyvern

A timer on screen is highly recommended, as this will make verification easier, but not required (general site rules state "Do not require a timer on a video unless there is a good reason to do so. A good reason might be a game that uses an auto-splitter to track time without loads.")

Any pauses during the run must be clearly noticeable in the recording.

Submission Time is RTA, and milliseconds will only be used in the event of a tie breaker”

In the event of another major update, we can evaluate the state of the board and the categories as needed

Lastly, if this goes forward I will be creating a guide on how to downpatch Sir Whoopass to run the old versions for anyone who might need it

I don't run kerotans but always viewed them as the "Dog Tags" of MGS3, and All Dog Tags is a main category on MGS2 and TTS leaderboards

I'm not super familiar with the finer details on Kerotans, but as of right now I don't see any harm in adding it to the Main Categories

There wasn't anything in the run on 2.2.0 that I wasn't able to do in 2.3.5

There's been some small new discoveries I've made in my runs, i'm not sure if they'd be doable in 2.2.0 since I haven't ran that version. But I'd bet they can be

I just learned this run and I'm currently running on version 2.3.5

I'm not gonna need to downpatch am i?