FinlandAs per the results of the polls, I have put all PC and console runs under their own sub-categories and moved Any% and PS2DA in Miscellaneous.
Results Categorization: https://strawpoll.com/9cbk7gh9 Any% & DA: https://strawpoll.com/gyy923eg
I have discussed this with PvtCb and we have created two polls for the runners of this game (people with submissions in it) to vote on. I will DM all runners of DMC3 who are in the Discord server using the DMC3 runner tag. I will keep the polls going until all eligible people have voted or two weeks have passed.
Poll #1 - Leaderboard categorization Option #1: Combine PC and console subcategories to two (PC, console) Option #2: Keep things as they are
Poll #2 - Any% & DA Option #1: Move both to Miscellaneous Option #2: Keep things as they are
Due to the recent update on Nioh, the PC RTA no load plugin for LiveSplit by B3LYP broke. Until it works again, I will accept RTA submissions of PC runs.
I've put the Abyss in the individual level leaderboard in 100 level segments. The rules are: Beat the Abyss levels X to Y. Timing is RTA. Timing starts from pressing continue on the Abyss and ends on the last hit of the last boss in the segment.
I have combined PS3/XBOX 360 and PS4/XBOX ONE as they are similar enough. This makes the leaderboard less cluttered. I have also changed PS2 to PS2SE (Special Edition) and made PS2DA (Dante's Awakening) which is the vanilla version only available on PS2. You can submit those runs there and now there is no need for another leaderboard just for Dante's Awakening.
I have put Bloody Palace in the Level Leaderboard and changed the timing method from RTA to IGT has it appears it is pretty consistent among different platforms. This way it is free of the other sub-categories (difficulty/platform). All BP runs must have the IGT at the end of the video.
I added all difficulties as sub-categories for fullgame and ILs. Thus most runs are now found under NG. NG+ Samurai is for completing a NG+ run on Way of the Samurai difficulty. It is noteworthy that you cannot do The Man with the Guardian Spirit on that difficulty more than once, so you simply don't need to do it in the NG+ run. I also added DLC Main Missions to ILs as well as all difficulties and Twilight variants of them.
Bloody Palace category has been created. Rules: Beat Bloody Palace. Timing starts from pressing Start in Bloody Palace mode and ends on final hit on Vergil 3. Super costumes allowed. Submit as Normal difficulty.
The poll has been up for a week and received only 7 votes with 4 for RTA and 3 for RTA no load. As such, we will keep RTA as standard timing for now.
Auddy has made an autosplitting load remover for the game in LiveSplit. It removes loads in blackscreens at the start and end of missions. It works for both 2006 and 2018 versions on PC. For whatever reason it only splits properly for me on the 2006 version on Dante NG Normal, but NG+ or Vergil runs don't split at the end. For me personally this is not a big issue and wiekds tested it and it worked just fine, so I assume others would also have it work, but not certain. From my testings the difference between RTA and RTA no load is about 30 seconds on Dante NG Normal. Not that huge, but this could make the two PC versions more fair in contrast to each other. Vote if you want RTA to stay as the timing that matters or if you want RTA no load as the standard.
As the vote decreed, I have separated all platforms into their own sub-categories. They will be displayed as Dante/Vergil NG/NG+ -> Difficulty -> Platform. I have also added a variable that everyone running the 2006 PC port should fill, which shows whether or not the player had StyleSwitcher installed. Have fun running!
It's his own run, he runs without SS
I first played this game in 2012 with the original HD collection on PS3. I didn't beat the game and only came back to it in 2016 with the 2006 PC version. I also played the version without SS for a fraction of the time I have played with the mod (understandably due to the port's flaws). This is why I never knew that despawning wasn't a glitch of the version. And like I said, since the port is practically unplayable for most people without the mod, not many people have run without SS installed. We allow disabling the music with SS as well due to it causing the game to lag. I am lucky enough that my game runs very well with music on, but some simply get bad performance. Allowing SS is a practical decision so people can run a mostly-functional game instead of not running at all. The despawns are an unfortunate side effect.
If you bothered watching my Dante NG Normal 1:06:21 past mission 1, you'd see I don't despawn enemies all the time getting crazy timesaves. I also don't reset in M1 because I don't get despawns, but because I perform badly or the game is unfavorable to me. To go fast, you want S-ranks from M1 and M2 to get Stinger 2 at the start of M3. If you get hit once in M1, you lose it, unless you spend a lot of time getting high style (and thus high orb count). M2 is much more lenient, but also requires you to be proficient. I can lose a lot of time easily especially in M1 by not doing what I'm supposed to do. Even simple things like not finishing an enemy with a certain attack can make the next wave spawn much slower. Since despawned enemies do not drop orbs, they can also cause a lower-than-desired orb count. I have never relied on getting despawns, and have thought that it would be very unpleasant if I or anyone ever got a really good run with something like the M2 Vanguard despawn, since that would discourage people from running.
Do you mean to say that you prefer option no. 1?
Running the game with the fear of having the run being rejected instantly if a despawn occurs is kind of ridiculous. If we simply banned the use of StyleSwitcher because it CAN cause despawns, it would effectively render the fastest version of the game unplayable for anyone who isn't fine with playing with keyboard, abysmal resolution and huge drops in FPS. It would also invalidate most runs on this board regardless of whether they had despawns or not. For a long time, the 2006 PC version was the go-to version for runners, but with the release of the HD collection on PC and PS4/Xbone it has become only desireable for runners. But banning StyleSwitcher would be like telling most runners to get the HD collection or some other version to compete. Also my Dante NG Normal run can easily be beaten with a run that doesn't have despawns. Nobody running with SS has ever relied on getting despawns.
If the no. 1 option in the poll ends up winning, it means all platforms will be ranked separately, so it doesn't even matter for most people that the 2006 PC version users would have StyleSwitcher and thus possible despawns.
Please read this and vote if you care for this game: https://www.speedrun.com/dmc3se/thread/so3nl/1#3xd0t Vote: https://strawpoll.com/72zrwcd2
I was always under the impression that the 2006 PC port came out-of-the-box with the despawn glitch, but after testing this out, it seems the despawns only happen with StyleSwitcher installed. I tried several times without SS and got none, and the first attempt with SS, I got a despawn. However, despawns are out of control of the player and the port is practically unplayable unmodded for anyone who plays with a gamepad, so simply invalidating a run due to this random occurence is inane. Most of the runs on the board are with the 2006 version. It is also the fastest version regardless of despawns.
Now after thinking about this and discussing with PvtCb, I will set up a new thread with a poll for the community to vote on with two options: No 1: Put the platforms (PS2/PS3/Xbox360/PS4/XboxOne/PC2006/PC2018) as sub-categories for the difficulties, so the platforms will have their own rankings instead of being mixed with the others, making it more fair since you don't have to have a specific version to go fast. This will also solve the the issue with despawns, as runs with the 2006 version will still allow the use of SS and thus despawns will not invalidate the runs.
No 2: Put the use of StyleSwitcher as a variable, just like "costume" or "turbo on/off" are. This does not differentiate by platforms, simply adds the ability to filter the runs by showing those with or without StyleSwitcher.
(tl;dr: https://pastebin.com/83CC7eBY ) As I have been made the sole moderator of the game, I will make the desired and necessary changes to the leaderboards as follows:
The times will be split between platforms (PC and PS4). PC uses the LiveSplit RTA no load plugin made by B3LYP and PS4 will use RTA. All runs must have video with decent quality. Manual pausing of the timer is disallowed. PC runs require RTA no load timer to be shown throughout the run. Runs must be done offline to disable accumulated clan buffs (clan inheriting is allowed) [does not apply to NG+ or individual level runs]. PC is current patch (CP) and PS4 is either Old Patch (anything not current patch) or CP.
These are the full-game categories: Any% - timing starts from pressing continue on The Man with the Guardian Spirit and ends in the blackscreen after pressing "Go forward" on Kelley's body in The Demon King Revealed
All Main Missions Vanilla - timing starts from pressing continue on The Man with the Guardian Spirit and ends in the blackscreen after pressing "Go forward" on John Dee's body in The Queen's Eyes
All Main Missions with DLC - timing starts from pressing continue on The Man with the Guardian Spirit and ends in the blackscreen after pressing "Go forward" on the last door in The Last Samurai (or whichever is the last "go forward" as the mission order is not set in stone)
Way of the Strong All Main Missions Vanilla - timing starts from pressing continue on The Man with the Guardian Spirit and ends in the blackscreen after pressing "Go forward" on John Dee's body in The Queen's Eyes (or whichever is the last "go forward" as the mission order is not set in stone)
Individual level runs - timing starts from pressing continue on at the start of a mission and ends in the blackscreen after pressing "Go forward"
Demo runs will be rejected.
I will go through the runs and make changes accordingly. If I find a run violates one of the new rules, I will remove it, examples being Demoneth's Any% run (done online) and CertifiedDankWeeb's Deep in the Shadows (Twilight) IL (does not "go forward" to blackscreen). This being a one-man job, it will take time, so don't expect this to happen overnight. If you have any questions or feedback on this, fire away.
22.1. Update: All the categories, sub-categories, rules and runs should display as intended.
Thanks to Fleret and DenZve for the help. If you want to give instant feedback, then join the Nioh discord: https://discord.gg/2S6sXWK
