I'll try Keeper "jud6s style" out. But just to clarify, I have no problem with the little health he has. The Lost has none but for the holy mantle and I am fine with him. Keeper's Fat Mag starting speed and, worst of all, his appalling tear rate that contrary to regular triple shot gets much worst with a few good items (quad or poly for instance), are really what makes him not fun to play with. I'm afraid Greed's Gullet, adding more health/coins and the D6 won't change that.

I kinda of agree with Karolmo and Haunted. The main reason players took to the jud9s category is because it is fun and less tedious to run than the regular 7-11-13(14) charas. Keeper, even buffed, might be interesting for some people but the character has such bad starting stats that he is just a pain to play most times. I think this category should be left as fun as possible. So as it stands, in my humble opinion, keeper doesn't have his place in it.

9 charas is good for me too. And finally I don't really mind switching Eve for either Maggy or Isaac.

As long as everyone is using the same tool for Eden, I am all up for it. It would really help to improve the most tedious part of speedrunning Isaac.

Well, in my humble opinion, are we talking about speedrunning? If yes, then speedrunning is about using every glitch and exploits in order to make your time faster. This is regardless on whether you like the strat, find it elegant, or not. With that in mind, I do agree with Dea1h to make a glitchless categories for those who don't want to use it.

Co-op babies is not even a glitch, it is an exploit on the game mechanics. If we are gonna base the validity of glitches and exploits on our likes and dislikes we might as well start a thread for every one of them.

For those who use keyboards, you can use the glitch. Yes, it requires a little effort, but as Zamiel demonstrated it is possible. So the argument of unfair advantage is not true.

So no, co-op babies does not bother me, it adds to the complexity of speedrunning Isaac. It has in absolutely no way changed my enjoyment of playing the game. And while in races we might need to validate certain exploits and glitches, I don't think this discussion really has a place as far as speedruns are concerned.

And as for the mod version itself it is pretty set cause we use the jud6s regular ruleset. Every new version is an improvement, not a downgrade so there should be no disadvantage speedrunning on the latest one.

the no donation machine overflow isn't really an issue since i believe it's a BLCK CNDL seed run.

Oh boy, just realized we can't use coop babies and did a 2:08:10 today. Yeah me! I was so glad to finish it as well since i left the pola with samson and undefined saved my butt with an error room tp in cathedral.

Anyhow, can we make this a miscelanious category already? Pretty please?