I definitely recommend taking advantage of this, even just watching a few minutes into his review of my run has already shown great insight and I can't wait to watch the rest later!

I've been doing a lot of running and routing for the above mentioned category and I can't recommend it highly enough, it's a great category that gets to see a sampling of most areas of the game and highly emphasizes just being good at the basic movement in Ori 2. By playing on Normal, it makes being good at the bosses highly valuable and fighting them on low health is extremely tense.

In terms of length, a few of us have gotten around the 1 hour 45 minute range with plenty of mistakes and deaths still to improve so I believe with time and practice we can absolutely be getting this into the 90 minute range or even better.

When do submissions close?

"No one will actually do it, we will discuss it if it happens" is what got us into the whole mess with TA back when Sigma took WR with blind misty. You might not think something is reasonable to do, but if someone can do something there are people who will do it. I don't think kicking the can down the road like that is a good idea here.

I disagree that the "technically not turbo" discussion isn't important. I think sigma made his point on that one better than I can so I would just say his concerns on the matter mirror my own.

I don't think anyone is seriously advocating removing controller remapping and forcing controller runners out, the point being made there is that we are already okay with superceding what the developers shipped to us to make that happen, so you can't really make the argument of "the game doesn't allow you to use mouse wheel so it needs to be removed." We already allow things the game doesn't allow so mouse wheel needs to be considered as well.

The actual time save provided by mouse wheel is fairly small, we are all friends here and I don't think those of us advocating keeping the wheel are doing so to try and screw controller players out of a few seconds. The arguments made have been coming from the basis of wanting a ruleset with internally consistent logic that isn't likely to cause future problems, not on the basis of timesave.

I personally am finding the majority of arguments being brought up to be either only tangentially relevant to the discussion or not a valid argument in favor of banning/not banning input methods. Things like helping level the playing field or the amount of time save are not relevant in the face of what should be allowed.

The only argument that matters, imo, is are we as a community okay with allowing programs other than the default keybind file to be used. I think we should be because allowing it because its pretty common in other speedrunning communities meaning the precedent has been set. Nearly 100% of Final Fantasy 7 PC runners, for example, use some variation of XPadder or Joy2Key to map the arrow keys to the dpad to allow movement with dpad and change buttons around. This is an external program being used to alter your ability to interact with the game and is perfectly fine.

Given that we as a community have judged it to be acceptable to allow controller players to use 3rd party programs to rebind because we feel like the game was "supposed" to let us rebind controller keys, we have already established precedent. You can argue developer intent all day but the simple fact is that the game that shipped to us does NOT allow controller rebinding, but we do it anyway. Ergo, 3rd party software is acceptable.

Although scroll wheel does allow inputs that are enhanced in their effectiveness, there is a very important distinction between a scroll wheel and a turbo button. If I hold down a turbo button, it is one action that will always produce a given set of outputs. Scroll wheel might augment your inputs but there is a distinct set of inputs you are making and there is absolutely skill involved in getting the maximum efficacy out of it. There is a big difference in your shooting if you just scroll the wheel with no practice and the optimal "scroll up once scroll down once" TAS level shooting. The fact that it still demands skill and is reflective of your inputs is an important distinction from a turbo button that needs to be taken into account.

Given all these points I think the safe course of action is to not change anything from where we are at now. There are absolutely valid arguments to be made against scroll wheel, otherwise we wouldn't be having such a divided debate. But we know for sure that the game is healthy and active the way that it is now. In the absence of overwhelming evidence in favor of changing things, I think we would be misguided in making a drastic change to how people are allowed to play the game.

I think Vulajin's posted ruleset is a good ruleset for a glitchless/NMG route and I support it as a category. I have no strong opinion on whether we make it glitchless or NMG, I think they were end up being functionally very similar either way. As far as some of the contentious glitches are concerned:

1. As far as I can tell both double bashing and rocket jumping are an unintended effect of game physics. I think either both need to be banned or both need to be legal, I don't see an argument for one and not the other. For the sake of "glitchless" I'd say ban them both.

2. Clipping through the crack in sorrow I'd say is a glitch, but not a major one. If we go with Glitchless take it out. If we go with NMG keep it in.

3. Save dropping and door warping both seem like pretty major glitches to me, id support their removal.

Im in favor of keeping the OoB rule in place primarily because of the points Sigma made, the route starts to look a lot like the other categories if you remove the rule so what do we really need the category for at that point.