FC runs should be submitted to the NES board (name will be updated soon to Hatris (NES/FC) since the gameboard is older than the inclusion of FC as a specified console.

I will look into getting the PCE board up though.

You are trying to make "Complete (HTML5)" not visible on the levels page?

That's a good idea. It would also help with the Sunsoft levels and would save massive adjustments to the normal board. So, yeah I'll be definitely be looking into getting something like that up very soon.

Makes sense to me; I'll update the rules shortly to account for this contingency for the time being.

Ah, brutal.

In my mind, Elo has not particular reason to care. But some of us original donors currently subscribe on an annual basis to Elo, or perhaps they might not on the next subscription period.

Nice to see this issue has yet to be addressed for yet another entire year.

Thumbs Up. I'll update the rules accordingly.

Ha, I guess I'm not even immediately seeing the difference between the normal cursor, and the first changes. If there is a singular frame the thumb actually appears, I believe that is what I would have used.

The Door Opening seemed promising but looking over the SNES for example, it appears, user gains control before the doors open, and so lemming release rates can be changed in that window.

But yes, seems SNES just, at least of the ones runs so far, it loads pretty slow.

I plan on looking at more closely tomorrow night.

Undoubtedly, precision is a weird way to phrase it; since as you say, we aren't having to measure any two runs against one another to the millisecond to figure out which is faster (though, I can conceive of a scenario happening at some point, where a tie would need to broken in some way). But I do need an objective spot for which to measure, which I attempt to do all games I moderate. I just rather have a very specific fact to point at, then having to put off the decision until it does actually come up (which, even with the low number of runners, I do expect a tie to happen, eventually. In NES, the Fun run is only 12-13 seconds from TAS).

When I first started the board; the answer seemed obvious, but as more ports got added, it's become more obvious there is no "Time starts X, Time ends Y" statement I could make that make sense for all ports; thus the reason for needing to break it up. I'm going to repost my notes in a much better format when I get a chance.

But about SMS:

"For SMS for example, you have a clear moment of gain-control from L1 splash screen, and a clear moment of end-control when OUT hits 0."

Ha, you can see the complexity. For ending time, having OUT hits 0 makes perfect sense; you have to actually get all the lemmings off the screen in order to pass the levels (the phrasing doesn't work for other ports where one can simply exit the level before all lemmings are removed). But for the purposes of SMS, Lemming counter hitting 0 makes perfect sense. It also makes perfect sense for NES as well, so I'll clarify that as well.

The beginning time, do you mean to say that you began timing immediately once the pre-L1 screen was visible (meaning before doing the input that actually starts the level?) I can see why, it does appear that when inputting from the first menu to the splash screen, the change takes place in a single frame.

First the most part, I've tried to work beginning times around the input from the splash screen that starts the level (or begins the fade out to the level). On NES, this is a one frame change. You hit A, the level starts. The SMS however takes at least 10 frames to fade to black. The splash screen loading might make more sense, since that is an actual single frame change. Seems to me the timing method you used for your run is definitely suitable for timing SMS runs.

I'll try to find another way to present my notes a lot more easy to read, lol. oof.

Hey y'all. I plan on doing a little of refining of the rules for the various ports in order to clarify exactly how timing will begin and end for the purposes of verification.

As you know, many of the various ports of the game have subtle differences, and the particulars as to how a level loads and unloads is no different.

At the end of the day, when verifying runs, particularly for the purposes accuracy and consistency, it's important for runs/ports to have a singular frame in which I can point at and say, "This is when the timer starts" and "This is when the run is considered over".

It use to be clearer, but as more runs have added on with new ports, I think it's important for me to go back and get all runs on the same page, and with the timing methods being explicit for each port.

I'm working on the draft right now of all the currently ran ports. As you can see... no single method is likely going to work for all ports. I've listed my thinking for each port up to this point, as I went with the best single frame occurrence I could use on a given port.

MS-DOS Input, Slightly Delayed Fade Last unfaded frame. IGT Stops, Slow Fade Out The first frame in which the final IGT second is visible

SNES/SFC Input, Very Delayed Fade Last unfaded frame. IGT Turns 0, Slow Fade Out The first frame in which the IGT 0:00 appears on successful last level.

NES/FC Input, Immediate Black Few Frames First black frame. Immediate Black Screen Preceding Post Level Info The first frame in which the screen goes black on successful last level.

SMS Input, Medium Fade, one Frame Level The first frame the level appears. Two Frame Load Out The first frame in which the entire after level screen appears.

Genesis Input, Very Delayed Fade Last unfaded frame. IGT Turns 0, Slow Fade Out The first frame in which the IGT 0:00 appears on successful last level.

Amiga Input, Immediate Fade Last unfaded frame. IGT Turns 0, Slow Fade Out The first frame in which the IGT 0:00 appears on successful last level.

PSP Input, Menu Disappears in Frame Last frame menu is visible. Post Level Screen Appears in Single Frame The first frame in which the after level page is visible on successful completion of last level

Atari ST Input, Medium Fade Last unfaded frame. IGT Turns 0, Slow Fade Out The first frame in which the IGT 0:00 appears on successful last level.

Comments, suggestions, etc. are welcome. After a couple weeks, I'll go through the runs to update the rules and retime runs as needed accordingly.

The 1993 disc release of this game (I believe we are referring to this one in particular: https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/lemmings/cover-art/gameCoverId,36344/ and ) is an MS-DOS rerelease of this game.

DOS 3.0 was out, and Windows 3.1, was a layer over DOS. Whether playing it directly from a DOS operating system, or with Windows 3.1 installed as OS (whether hardware installed or emulated), it would be marked as a DOS run of the game.

Besides the banging music, the game appears to run very closely to the original DOS version, and it's funny that the one main difference appears to be a slightly larger drop allowance.

It's every something that needs to be accounted for separately in the future for whatever reason, the runs can be separated at a later time. For the mean time, if it appears to be the functionally fastest version of the DOS releases, then I would use it.

Real ones playing Go! Go! Beckham! Adventure on Soccer Island, tbh. Good IGT system with any and hundo.

Nice dude. Bout time someone started breaking these games.

Sorry for the delayed response; the site is notifying me of stuff a week late.

Feel free to post the database!! I'm sure people would appreciate the reference. In any of the WOF games I would imagine.

I imagine it's easy to underestimate how much a time sink actually being a decent mod is, compared to time needed to set up a board generally. Getting going is easy; dealing with every insane possible issue that will crop up in the 12 months following is not so much. I've been modding Lemmings for close to 5 years now; not even referencing the other game pages related to the main one, the main page audit log is 129 pages. That's all me over the years. Would have never guessed careful moderation of even a relatively unrun game, despite it's immense number of ports, would ever end being nearly as complicated as it actually is.

Patch details, port variations, unworkable level leaderboard scenarios; stuff can be pretty nuanced. Spent a lot of time just researching random games; let alone reviewing actual game footage, reaching out to the members of the community and addressing concerns. I enjoy trying to improve boards, but I personally wouldn't want to be doing anything on this site that consumed so much of time as to the detrimental to my well being or relationships.

There are C64 games on the site. Amiga more popular. DOS even more so.

When you are on the main games top in the top left, select all games. From there you can can filter by the platform you are looking for specifically.

I moderate the Lemmings page and a runner was mentioning running the C64 version recently. So they are out there, though I have not messed with it myself.

Welcome.

C64 added to the to do list as far as levels are concerned*. Has been added for Full Game runs.

You opened a ticket with the site staff and everything, and they weren't able to help?