Yeah I don't really get why you're waiting to submit the runs when the versus categories are currently empty, especially when you're probably going to beat these PBs within the next couple months. If you want the rule to be changed, then verify whether the loading times actually vary between game versions or consoles. Until then, it's fine as is.

And I don't see a problem with X2ndhandsarcasm's video either. As @Jumpyluff said, it was verified at some point, and I've seen unavailable runs in other leaderboards

Btw, I might try to do a run or two when I get back home during the weekend. I don't really have any recording equipment besides my phone but I think getting an Any% run out there will help

Btw Jumpy, Weapon didn't submit either of those runs (2h10 or 8h).

The barrels are pretty easy to avoid just by moving. You don't even need to sprint

My strat for this mission that I practiced today involved trying to be on the centre platform before the Wink. If you're on the platform, then the Wink will skip that platform. To get down quickly, I cling onto the walls and do Wolverine's wall dive attack

I think my best time for that mission was probably around 2:30

This strat isn't actually as reliable as I thought. Today, I've been practicing strats for Femme Fatale, Top of the World and Daredevil. I have a good strat for Top of the World and I sort of have strats for the other two. Hard to explain these strats in text but when I record a run, you'll see them

I also did an unrecorded untimed practice run which went pretty good outside of a couple missions; most notably Scuttle, Death Incarnate and Meet Your Maker. All of these time losses were very late in the run so I should practice my end game before doing a run

The strat for the mission "Daredevil!" (Elektra vs Daredevil) is way too difficult and unreliable. I have a more reliable strat. If you run up the top right of the left wall and then cling on with your knives, there's a good chance Daredevil will swing to his death. If this doesn't work, the back up is to get off the wall and just try to throw him off, but stay near the ledge in order to do this

For me, this tends to work more often than not but it is tricky and requires some luck

I'm pretty sure the Wink is invulnerable during the time when she's on those platforms in Femme Fatale. I've found that throwing the barrels at her does no damage when she's on the platforms. The only strat I have for that mission is to be on the centre platform before she teleports onto it because then she won't teleport onto it. I'm gonna try and look for more strats on that mission because the Wink isn't very durable so this mission really shouldn't take as long as it does. I found that hitting the consoles into her does the most damage but even then this is a really long mission and her teleporting onto the platforms wastes so much time

You really need to start doing some of the ring out manipulations. The easiest one is Earthquake!, that should at least be included in your next run. Like seriously it's a very reliable strat and it's very fast. Pretty much guaranteed that Fault Zone will jump to her death within the first 10 seconds if you immediately just fly over the pit

Also I'd say the submit the Versus runs now and the times can be changed later if the rule gets changed

Yeah I don't have much time to speedrun yet. I'll have time once I'm finished my exams at the end of May.

Also, pretty sure Star Falco isn't f1. Idk who X2ndhandsarcasm is, ik he's on the leaderboard but yeah, idk.

Did you try out any of the new strats in this story run?

Also, idk if the timer should start on Clash, or just after the loading screen ends when you can skip the character intros

Yeah I'd say having it named Versus makes more sense since it only contains Versus categories. Any miscellanious categories in the future can have their own miscellanious category but Versus makes the most sense for the Versus categories. And since Versus and Story are the only 2 modes of the game, it makes sense to have them as the 2 categories

Also, my game is working again so I'm able to play it now. Turns out the problem was with my console, not my disc

There is an option to show miscellaneous categories when I go onto your profile

Nice! I'll definitely watch that story run

I think how it is now with the 9 Lives and 9 Lives (No Ring Outs) is ok, at least for now. I agree Hard difficulty is best, easier difficulties can be categories later on but for now, leaving it on Hard is fine.

I agree with Weapon Lord, there shouldn't be subcategories for Venues or Characters, at least not yet, because hardly anyone is running the game yet. I don't really feel there's that much of a difference between maps apart from the ones with ring outs, so that's the only thing that should be split into categories

With lives, this DEFINITELY shouldn't be split into all different lives. I think it's fine with Versus 9 Lives, and if a Versus All Characters category is introduced, which we've talked about but nobody has run yet, leaving that category at 3 lives should be ok. But having different categories for 1 life, 2 lives, 3 lives, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 would be way too much. I agree with Weapon Lord that number of categories and subcategories should be kept low

For now, I think we should leave the leaderboard as is. Those test runs on the leaderboard can probably be deleted and @WeaponLord can probably submit his run to the 9 Lives (No Ring Out) category. Excited to see some more runs for the game, anyone else here thinking of submitting runs?

Yeah I was thinking making the venue a variable would make more sense. Maybe you could have 2 different categories for the pit stages and non-pit stages, having the different stages as a variable rather than having 1 subcategory for each stage.

So 1 category would have the non-pit stages where NYC Streets, Roekel's HQ, Avenger's Mansion and Power Plant would be the variables, and a 2nd category with Bridge, Daily Bugle & Grand Central Station as stage variables

Another point about the Versus run. Should the timer start when the map is selected? Or should it start after the loading screen finishes? Because load times may vary and if that's the case, then removing the load time should probably be done

Well I just think if we allowed the maps where ring outs were possible, the run would be really uninteresting because you would just be easily able to manipulate the AI to ring itself out. If the runs were restricted to the maps without ring outs, then they would be more interesting, like the run Weapon Lord uploaded, and there would be actual skill required in the run

Obviously in a speedrun, we want the fastest times but if the runs are bad, then they're not worth doing. The only way I think these Versus runs would be worth doing is in these maps

I do see that you moved the category from the Level Leaderboard which I definitely think is fine. Also, I think the Versus - All Characters should definitely be added too

Level leaderboards would make more sense for completing Wolverine's missions, Elektra's missions, Daredevil's missions etc.

I'm fine with how it is except I think that All Characters should be included, and the maps where ring-outs are possible should be excluded

I do think it would be better to just have the 2 categories on the Full-game leaderboard rather than the Level Leaderboard but I don't really think it matters that much

I noticed that the Versus mode was added in Level Leaderboards. But I don't think there should be any for the arena's where ring outs are possible because it's easy to manipulate enemies to ring themselves out. So those are The Bridge, Daily Bugle and Grand Central Station

Also, I think the Versus - All Characters should also be included

Ok well I guess it could be a back up strat but I'm not sure I see it being of much use if you're going for the main strat to get him to ring himself out

So the site was rolled back and we lost some of the discussion from the last few days on this forum...

But you mentioned a new strat for the mission The Electric Man? Would this strat be faster or more reliable than the AI manipulation to get Johnny Ohm to ring himself out? If you could test both strats and compare, that'd be great

Probably not for now. Subcategories for characters can be added later if it becomes popular enough.

Don't think there's really any need to obsess over these details yet in an unofficial category. On hard difficulty though, the AI is pretty good at avoiding giant objects with the super block