@k-Patch This is not "feature creep," it's a legitimate concern that has yet to be addressed. I'm totally fine with getting through runs as fast as possible as we've all been doing, it's just that as @Zero169 and I also alluded to, there won't be a way to know exactly how well you did until you scan through the recording/VOD and find the second or two after each race where the IGT time is displayed and add them all up.

If IGT times are inputted into Livesplit quickly and it's not used as an excuse to take a break, I think it could be extremely helpful overall. But if it's viewed as an interruption, I totally understand. It's simply an idea that I figured should be brought up.

P.S. @Zero169 I was going to run an RTA timer either way just to prove legitimacy and that it was all done in one go. If the IGT inputting is allowed by mods I have a layout in Livesplit that would include both.

@Molotok I have a question regarding one of the new rules, specifically concerning "no breaks on level transitions." I was considering using a feature in Livesplit that would allow me to manually input IGT times for each split as I went along; this way Livesplit could do the IGT addition for me and I could tell immediately once I finished a run whether I beat my in-game PB time.

Of course, taking the time to manually punch in each level's IGT could be possibly be viewed as taking a "break" mid-run, even if done quickly. However, I think it would be a really helpful tool and would cut down on the hassle of calculating IGT after the fact. I'd love to get your thoughts on this.

@k-Patch If I suggested this change solely to suit my "own personal needs" and had no other reasoning to back it up, the mods and other runners would've called me out on my nonsense. Instead, we as a community have agreed that load times are a significant issue and we're doing what we can to fix it. I don't care about what place I have on a leaderboard, just that my performance is accurately measured against the other runners. You still have to run all races in a single attempt, the only difference now is that the timing is more reflective of in-game skill.

Also I'm a hobbyist streamer and speedrunner; I have no "clout" to speak of. I don't know @Molotok or @Sk1pBaSe personally nor have I ever DM'ed them before. I simply presented my case and allowed them to make their decision.

@k-Patch How much of my VODs did you have to watch through to find that one? You're cracking me up! Sure, I messed up and accidentally held the analog stick while spamming through the menus once in hours upon hours of attempts on a different game entirely; I don't see how that's relevant. I never said it took no skill, just not much, and I'd never submit a run with bad menuing anyway.

Like @Molotok said, the point to switching to IGT is to keep "main part that seperates skill (races) competitive" and to maintain the integrity of the leaderboard. So I'm sorry if I've somehow offended you by bringing this issue up, but it seems like the majority of the community is in favor of the change.

@Zero169 I believe @Molotok is proposing switching to IGT for all full game runs on all consoles. I originally brought this up for 3DO specifically since my console was being way too inconsistent, but there are obviously issues with other platforms too; such as the PS1 version that requires a slim PS2 with fast disc speeds for the shortest loads.

There is an option to allow input of an IGT time during submission so I'm assuming you'd want to add up all 5 IGT track times together and just submit that total time in the field. I'm sure @Molotok will do a good job nailing down specifics, but I might suggest we still run an RTA timer mainly to enforce the no pausing/break rules and to prevent people from splicing best attempts together to form their runs. I know there's a way to input IGT times into livesplit so I may try working that out that as well.

Obviously, none of us did this before since we were on RTA, but I think it also might be a good idea in future runs to linger on end screen of each race just so the times are clear and legible on the video; if you commentate maybe even read the time off before continuing just to ensure legitimacy. Putting them in the run description is always a good idea too.

It just seems like the many cons of RTA are outweighing the very few pros (namely convenience and the race finish strat). Plus it doesn't seem right to gatekeep full game runs to those that have the best and fastest hardware, especially when there's a perfectly reliable in-game timer at the end of each stage.

I just think it's a good way to both ensure run fairness but also futureproof the category, especially as the hardware gets even less reliable. I foresee even more people will opt for USB loaders or hard drive mods down the line, and IGT would eliminate any possible advantages or disadvantages.

As @Moorea alluded to, it would take some effort to retime the other runs, but it's something I would also gladly volunteer to help with.

@k-Patch The IL runs are a good option, and with the info you provided, I'll gladly do some runs once my system is back up and running. I just hope I can also still participate in the Level 1 category because I find it a lot of fun to do them all in one go. I just don't think it makes much sense for me to drop down more money on 3DO consoles and hope I find "the one" that has a flawless laser and the best load times so that I can compete in an RTA setting; it's just not realistic.

@k-Patch I was unaware you could set Level to 5 in the Restroom. Thank you for that info.

Obviously I don't condone breaks in speedruns; I'm not even sure how anyone could justify doing that and call it a speedrun. It's pretty well established in other IGT full game runs that you can't do anything like that and have it be verified. I don't see how this would be any different.

The leaderboard for Star Wars: Super Bombad Racing (which I am a part of) switched over to IGT recently for the same reason of load times varying wildly between console revisions. All runs still require to be done in one sitting with no breaks: https://www.speedrun.com/superbombadracing/full_game

Even more popular racing game speedruns like Sonic R have adopted the same IGT method: https://www.speedrun.com/sonicr#Any_No_OoB

So far it sounds like the only reason to keep RTA is for the finish line trick; admittedly there is some skill involved on that, but is it worth the risk of dodgy load times influencing the time of the run?

It also looks like most of the other Road Rash leaderboards have switched over to IGT for their Level 1 runs (I checked the 16 bit, RR 2 and RR 3 boards). It seems like for the series as a whole, runners and mods have opted to make IGT the go-to way to measure performance. I agree that RTA is more convenient, but there's too many variables to make it very accurate.

@k-Patch The reason I hesitate to to IL runs is because those are locked to Level 5, which as you know, takes a considerable amount of time to unlock. I know the 3DO is a niche console to begin with, but I could actually see someone pick one up and do some Level 1 runs for fun. I think far less people are willing to spend hours doing races they can't time in order to unlock the ability to do IL runs.

@k-Patch I think you're missing my point. I'm suggesting we switch to IGT, therefore load times wouldn't be factored into the overall run time.

Yes, if we stayed with RTA and I started using a USB loader, that would be unfair, and I agree 100% on that.

IGT would mean you could use any system, brand new laser, busted old laser or USB loader, and it would be fair, since there's no load times to get in the way of the racing. It's not like a USB loader is going to make the game magically run faster. It just means I don't have to worry about the most faulty part of the system anymore.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "navigating the menus" simply consist of simple button spamming? The game automatically selects the next level upon completion of the last, so there's no real technique going on as far as I'm aware....

Playing your video side by side with mine upon completed races the menuing matches up before each race, however your load times are considerably shorter which allows you to get subsequent races many seconds quicker. Keep in mind I was also doing my runs on a "normal 3DO." The nature of these old lasers are simply not consistent enough to provide fair times with RTA.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just seeing a major discrepancy that I'd like to get worked out. I think the solution of just "getting one" is silly because these systems aren't that cheap, at least here in the US, and even I did buy one, the laser in that replacement could be just as bad or worse. I could end up dropping a lot of money and be in the exact same spot that I am now.

My current 3DO laser is no longer functioning and I have a USB loader on the way. I would like to continue running in the Level 1 category but realize that my loads will likely be faster. My console is stock otherwise so I fail to see the issue if we take loads out of the equation entirely and go solely on IGT.

I will ultimately respect whatever decision the mods decide to make, but I just want to get my point of view out here. I think later on down the line these systems are going to get even less reliable and more people will be going the USB loader route. IGT would mean any system configuration would be viable and it would make the category more welcoming as a result.

Hey fellow Road Rash runners and mods:

I wanted to bring this up since my 3DO's laser recently died. In fact, even while I was doing runs I could tell that something was up, as I kept getting behind my splits despite playing better.

After discovering this, I decided to compare my IGT to the times K-Patch listed in the description of their run...

kyletx500's run: The City: 3:17.80 Sierra Nevada: 3:10.60 The Peninsula: 3:15.90 Napa Valley: 2:55.73 Pacific Highway: 3:15.18

kyletx500 Total IGT: 15:55.21

K-Patch's run: The City: 3:11.86 Sierra Nevada: 3:12.26 The Peninsula: 3:13.61 Napa Valley: 3:15.56 Pacific Highway: 3:26.70

K-Patch Total IGT: 16:19.99

As according to IGT, I technically beat K-Patch's time by nearly 25 seconds, and I'm assuming this is due to slower loads on my dying system. In most circumstances I wouldn't bother bringing this up, however I've decided to buy a USB loader as I'd prefer not to deal with dying lasers any longer.

I think considering that load times vary dramatically on different 3DOs anyway, it would be wise to switch over to IGT times for the leaderboard. I know it requires a bit of calculation, but the game displays the times after every race and it simply seems like the more fair comparison. Currently K-Patch has the load time advantage, but with a USB loader I'd most likely have the upper hand, and I'd prefer to make it as even of a playing field as possible.

The 2nd place runner for PS used a PS2 slim with fast disc speed enabled, so I'd say any official Sony console is fair game.

Hi moderators and fellow runners,

I recently purchased the sequel, Nickelodeon Kart Racers 2: Grand Prix, and was curious about looking into the speedrun potential for it, as it looks as though there's currently no page.

I'd like to try some runs, however I'd like some community established rules to work off of, as the game features a considerable amount of kart customization and I'm not sure how much of those variables should be tracked/included as information on the boards.

I'm definitely not an expert on this topic, but I figure I might as well throw in my two cents. I would personally shy away from splitting the leaderboard at least for now. From my (limited) experience speedrunning PS1 games, load times on emulators (especially ePSXe) are really well approximated and fairly accurate. If anything, some console revisions, such as the slim PS2 with the fast disc speed option, can outperform emulator load times in certain cases.

This is all to say that there are a lot of variables, however I don't think the load times will differ so much that it will make a significant difference in run times. If there were really a lot of competition, I would say the most fair thing to do would be to switch to IGT timing, however the calculations would be tricky and may deter newer players that find RTA more convenient.

I am requesting leaderboard moderation for two games:

Motor Toon Grand Prix (PS1, 1996) [https://www.speedrun.com/motor_toon_grand_prix/] @NehkRohw is the only mod/supermod for the page. According to his profile, he hasn't submitted any runs in 3 years and his last login was 9 months ago. Both of his social links direct me to dead pages, therefore trying to reach them off-site is impossible.

Star Wars: Super Bombad Racing (PS2, 2001) [https://www.speedrun.com/superbombadracing] @JRapid hasn't logged into the site in over a year and all social links that would allow for DMs are dead. @Vertigo is the super mod and hasn't logged in for over 3 months. I sent them a friend request via Discord in order to discuss my pending run as well as issues with the leaderboard however he has yet to accept or respond. Moderator access for this game in particular is very important to me as different load times between console revisions and different emulators make the current RTA timing method deeply flawed. Therefore, the current leaderboard positions are not reflective of IGT performance.

@Yashichi @PvtCb @Livelyraccoon any possibility you could get me hooked up? I submitted a game request and they insist I get in contact with one of the series mods.

As far as I can tell, this game has not yet been submitted to Speedrun.com and I was wondering if any of the mods for this series could provide any assistance.

I played this game for the first time last night and I think it could be a fun speed game. The only thing is that the full grand prix mode is unnecessarily long (like 8+ hours to complete) and many of the tracks repeat multiple times throughout. SR.com requests that new game submissions feature a "full" run of the game, whereas I would like to do a partial run. I'd likely run the first 6 circuits, as that's much more manageable and less repetitive than doing the full 16 circuit run. I was thinking the category could be called "Grand Prix, Bomber Circuits" or something to that effect since the first six are named after the different colored Bombers.

I've run a few other games in the last month or two and already moderate for a game, so I'd be happy to moderate for this one as well. I know it's an obscure one, but I think it could shape up to be a good running game.

@Daravae or @ShikenNuggets RE: An American Tail (https://www.speedrun.com/aat). My account is now a month old and my runs for the game are still yet to be approved. It also sounds like the previous moderator has no plans to reapply for mod or supervise the game.

I'm posting here to request mod status for An American Tail (PS2, PAL, 2007) [https://www.speedrun.com/aat]. I submitted a WR run almost two weeks ago and received no notification as to my run's approval. I messaged the former WR holder to see if he could approve my run and he told me that he is no longer a moderator for the game; this leaves no moderators for the game whatsoever (even inactive ones).