This community has already shown itself to be cancerous. "Voting" and the pretense of democracy is pointless as has been demonstrated by all of the self-serving agendas in the forums over the past week. This forum needs a hard and fast set of rules in place as Auddy, Jcstrickland, Zenix and I have said repeatedly.

@RE_Snow You haven't said what we are voting for. The strawpoll is just to see if the community is receptive to the possibility of change, not voting for/against any of the individual changes.

I personally think this whole "voting" thing is absurd. Just look at the forums over the last week or so. Trying to run the board like a democracy is never going to work because everyone is going to vote for their own interests and not for the benefit of the community as a whole. It's time to lay down a set of rules which are not open to interpretation at all, and the only way to do that is to inconvenience certain people (those who can't record both players, those who can't run at 60fps, etc) to make the rules completely unambiguous. Mods, it's time to put on your dictator caps, make the changes official, and leave them that way. The sooner it happens, the sooner everyone can get back to running the game and learn to live with the new rules.

Either you relax the framerate rules or both sides have to record, and since allowing uncapped is frankly ridiculous, it's not much of a decision. There's literally no other way of verifying that both players are following the rules. It's not even a matter of someone getting a ridiculous time that warrants this verification. Even if you're only gaining 10, 20, 30 seconds because one player is running uncapped, it's still cheating. We can't go about saying "Well, you don't have to provide proof you're not cheating if you don't cheat enough to get caught."

In the current state of the board, the lack of standards regarding things like this is disturbing to say the least. So just cut the problem off at the knees and say both players need to record. The rules need to be clear, comprehensive, and as fair as possible. They don't need to be forgiving or inclusive. If you can't meet the requirements, you can't submit a run.

Are you saying that because RE5 has an in-game timer, that it should be used as the primary means of timing a speedrun? Because that is simply not the case. Nearly every game has an in-game timer, but you need to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis on whether or not it is actually accurate. In RE5, it most definitely is not. I can sit in the inventory menu for 2 months and come back to beat the game with an IGT of 1:15. That does not accurately represent how quickly I beat the game.

I'm not even sure why you are arguing about whether or not you can get world record, because if you can get a one-cycle that already puts you a full minute ahead of the people running 60fps. By your argument, being "forced" to run at 30fps is actually an advantage! You should easily be able to beat their RTA time if the rest of your run is as good as theirs. Your case for IGT is about as solid as a wet paper bag.

You simply don't understand how the mechanics of RTA vs. IGT timing work.

The reason we are against IGT timing is because it literally allows unlimited menu time since time spent in the inventory and menu is not counted by IGT. This is an absolutely unacceptable flaw in IGT timing for the same reason the timing of many other games is done by RTA. Not only that, but IGT is harder for the mods to verify.

Furthermore, you failed to realize that the virtues I mentioned such as fairness or representation of runner skill were entirely rhetorical. In fact IGT is none of these things. Instead of parroting what I said and claiming it's what you believe, try coming up with some actual evidence to support your claim. You said "I got a one cycle so change the rules for the entire community so that I can be #1". Sorry to break this to you bud, but nobody gives a shit about who is #1. We care about the rules being fair and not favoring one party over another.

Right now the rules cap framerate at 60fps. If your computer can't run at 60fps, you're out of luck. Sorry, that's just the way it is. You can still get a world record at 30fps, almost every coop WR on the boards is done with one player at 30fps. The difference is marginal at best. Instead of blaming your computer, try getting better.

The only reason you gave for changing the rules is because it would give you the advantage. That's an invalid reason. If you put half as much effort into improving your run as you did trying to persuade the mods to change the rules of the run, you'd probably have WR by now.

Well since Khomchik has since deleted his original post, along with his video evidence of how to perform the one-cycle, it's fair to assume he was either cheating as he is a known cheater, or it's a 30fps thing that literally no one except for him has been able to consistently replicate.

Either way, the rules should remain as they are. RTA is clearly the only viable choice for NG, and dividing the timing rules for NG versus NG+ is not only confusing but also sets a double standard wherein it's okay to menu for as long as you want in NG+ but not NG. The rules should stay as they are.

Of course Auddy, I wasn't calling out any of the mods in particular, I'm more trying to project a message to the community at large and particularly to those who aren't posting to the forums. I know you're just trying to figure all of this out and I commend you for taking the charge and starting the conversation in the first place.

This is how the board should be organized in my opinion.

The rules are fine the way they are now.

Honestly reading through these boards leaves me incredible disappointed with this community. It's always had a few bad apples, but I've never felt the need to have my voice heard so strongly until all of this childish bickering commenced.

Khomchik's entire argument is not that IGT would make the game more fair, or more representative of the runner's skill, or give a more accurate representation of how fast the game was completed. It was "I'm now the fastest, so change the rules for everybody so I can see a #1 next to my name."

Everyone is only throwing around suggestions which serve their own interests rather than considering what is right for the community as a whole. This is the kind of contemptible behavior that is killing this board. There are obviously incredibly strong egos at play because every single one of these discussions is based around certain people pushing for rule changes that will give them the edge.

Right now, with the rules as they are, NOBODY has an unfair advantage, with the inescapable exception of PC/console. Why would anyone who loves this game and cares about the people who play it want to change that because of the pressure of a few washed up runners who can't get a record fairly and instead come groveling to the boards for the mods to change the rules so they can get their name on the board and devalue the work of people who have put serious hours into becoming the best?

This one is a no for me. There is an enormous competitive difference between having a software advantage (regional cart or version) and having a hardware advantage, one that goes beyond just "unfairness."

If we take Auddy's examples as a reference, the Japanese SM64 cart is indeed faster. But everyone who runs SM64, regardless of region, is running it on an N64 console or an emulator which has been rigorously tested to insure that it does not provide an advantage. In particular, this means that the emulator will not run faster than an N64 console. The same goes for RE4: different copies of the game have their own quirks which change the speed, but everyone is running the game on a console or PC with a locked framerate. In other words, in those games you mentioned, everyone is still on even footing when it comes to hardware.

These examples are, in fact, entirely irrelevant to the case of RE5. Regardless of which version you are running, if you have a beefier PC, you WILL go faster if your framerate is uncapped.

Imagine that I wanted to speedrun Jazz Jackrabbit for DOS on my modern tower, and cranked up my DOSBox speed to 300,000 cycles per second, ran the game at 100x its intended speed and beat the game in 45 seconds. Would you say that I deserved the world record for that game?

In a less extreme case, this is what you are proposing for RE5. Fallout 4 has a similar issue with uncapped framerates and their official rules now reflect this, placing a hard limit at 60fps. For those who were around for Half-Life 1's speedrunning heyday you will remember the bunnyhopping fps exploit, and their board caps framerate at 100 for this reason.

I challenge anyone to find a board for an active game where speed is tied to framerate that does NOT explicitly limit fps. There's a reason no other boards allow it: it's downright scummy. To me this thread reads like a bunch of runners who know they have some heavy hardware and are trying to price out as much competition as they can.

If policing the runs is a problem, then bite the bullet and make it a rule that coop runs require both perspectives with FPS on screen at all times. The argument that "people aren't using the fps counter" is entirely invalid. As a mod you must reject runs that go against the rules. The games mentioned above with framerate requirements have no problem enforcing their rules. I find the mixed rhetoric, wherein you want to include people who cannot afford decent recording software (let alone a strong PC) while also forcing them out of competition with expensive uncapped PC rigs, to be tasteless and hypocritical.

In the end it comes down to the fact that the best RE5 player in the world should be able to come to our community and compete at the highest level with as few barriers to entry as possible. You don't build a healthy community by topping the charts with times unattainable to those without $3000 PC's. That's just this runner's opinion. I hope that the powers that be end up making the right decision.

EDIT: While I disagree with TheCarpenter on whether or not uncapped should be permitted, he is indeed right that if uncapped framerate is allowed this game will not only be dead on PC, it will be made an example of. So if you want to sacrifice this game to make sure that all games of this nature have capped framerates, that's up to you.

Yep, not working for me either. I've tried running as admin, reinstalling RE5 several times (including using my old retail discs), running in windowed, etc. and haven't gotten it to work.

It's not the install because we have both reinstalled our games since the first several crashes and it still occurs in exactly the same places.

We just ran it again, in the reverse order, with me doing the cranks and host riding the raft. No crash. We also slowed down our cranks for 2-2 and didn't crash there either. I'm fairly convinced that cranking too fast is the issue and will test it more once I can actually utilize saved games again.

The only real evidence I have is that in our PB, the last two croc QTEs were really compressed, as if the game is hard coded to have four and it was trying to squeeze them in at the last minute as the raft was almost to the ladder. All of our disconnections occur close to the ladder and after only two QTEs.

Hi everyone, me and a friend have been running new game coop and ever since we started doing serious attempts, we get disconnected on the "crocodile raft" in 3-2. He is hosting as Chris and operates the crank while I ride the raft, and every time we get close to finishing, we get disconnected. Since we are running NG and can't save, it's an instant run killer. This is a known bug on the steam forums and elsewhere. It's about a 50/50 chance that we get through alright. In addition, we are also experiencing disconnections at other "cranks," namely the cranks in the mines in 2-2 (already lost three runs there). Does anyone know if this is related to who is hosting? Is there any way to fix or minimize this problem? We both have good connections and don't experience disconnections anywhere else.

EDIT: We think that it might be that my partner is spinning too fast (he's playing on pad). That would explain why it never occurs when I'm the one cranking.

I still think that organizing by difficulty is a good idea, but NG+ Coop/solo and NG coop/solo are all run very regularly. I agree that having a ton of categories under misc is ugly because no one is running them. It doesn't make sense to compare NG and NG+ on the same board because the runs are 10 minutes apart. RE4's board separates these categories and for good reason.

Why not split the primary categories into NG Solo, NG Coop, NG+ Solo and NG+ Coop? I get that you can go through a drop down menu to sort it that way, but what is the point of comparing NG and NG+ runs on the same leaderboard on the front page when the runs aren't even close to competitive with each other?

I'm not exactly sure what the category is/was, I've never seen it on this page personally, but if you want to run it, go ahead. Speedrunning isn't limited to the categories on a leaderboard, just have fun with it. If the category makes a return or a mod decides to implement it again, you'll already have something you can post. Besides that you can run some of the other categories, but this isn't really a serious/good speed game. The sheer amount of randomness means that besides understanding a few of the branching dialogue paths, it's pure luck whether or not you get a good run. This is kind of just a joke speed game for that reason, hence all the ridiculously short miscellaneous categories.