Someone sent me this thread so I reached out to Charlie over this topic. This is what he sent me!

"I dont remember too much of the game, I used to speedrun a ton of shitty games back then like 5-10 a month just going through steam overwhelming negative user reviews and finding routes or learning routes and sometimes make a video on the more interesting ones. I do remember spending a good chunk of time on stalin subway because it kept crashing on me and there's a level skip that would sometimes just freeze my laptop but I don't think I ever got fed up enough to splice a run together. Haven't touched that game since posting the run since it was such a headache to do but yeah if the ammo/health count cant be duplicated I cant really explain it either. The people on there have definitely tested it all more than me and im only going off memory from over 4 years ago. All my speedruns except House of Caravan were mainly just to joke around in a shitty game with fun glitches so I never submit them"

Hey everyone, I just rolled out the winners for the Drake and Josh competition. Congrats to Seppe and SirPudge for winning the $100 raffle, and apbrooks110 for winning the $50 WR bounty. I will be contacting you all individually.

gaming

I only just now noticed this got accepted. I'll work on filling everything out in a little bit including categories and mods.

For sure, I'll get on this very soon. Sorry for taking so long to approve runs, Speedrun.com was dealing with hacking stuff and I just now got around to fixing my account. I'm glad to see some interest in this game and I'll get around to making changes soon!

Against horned golem I'm assuming. I watched a bit through your recent Twitch VOD and noticed you didn't have fasthold gloves on, so make sure you have those on, as well as make sure you get the pole before going into the boss fight. If you go for the pole at the start you will lure the boss and have a bad start.

As for AL the way his AI works is that whenever you command him to do something he will queue it up until he can finally do the action and the only exception is when he gets hit. If you command him to jump on the cannon and he gets hit make sure to command him again. The best way to deal with the boss is hit him as many times with the pole as possible to stun him and prevent him from attacking AL. Once you have a good combo meter stay close to the boss so that he will be more likely to do his close range attack (not the swipes) which the pole will cancel. Other than that the only thing you have to deal with is body slams. In my latest PB I ended up handling it pretty well. The boss fight is super difficult and requires a lot of practice.

I'll be making a Discord server for these games soon.

Hey! I added the game with a run right here https://www.speedrun.com/fma2

Awful games block at AGDQ inspired me to pick up this game in hopes to get it into the next GDQ. The game is by far more broken in 2 player mode. Mind making an additional category for it, and perhaps NG+ since being able to choose characters may allow for some unique skips. As far as I know you can only skip through barriers in 2 player mode with a small character and a medium sized character, or a small character and medium character with a large character. I still have more expirimenting to do with the game, though. Barrier clipping may be possible with 2 characters of the same size, not sure.

Unfortunately this is an issue in other communities as well. Most games run faster on PC if the version is available unless there are console exclusive skips to save time.If multilogging is limited to the degree I mentioned earlier there shouldn't be too many issues, especially if OSRS mobile is implemented, then you can just multilog on another account from there. Also as far as Count Draynor blocking goes you would technically be able to have a friend do that for you because all it really is is an account standing still. With there being no interaction I don't see how this could impose anything, but I understand why people would be against this concept. If hardware or internet connection is impeding your run on two accounts, then it most likely would also impede your run on a solo account. At least for WR contention. OSRS is a pretty low CPU usage PC game, especially if being ran on the official client. I'd be suprised if this would be a widespread issue, especially since this is the first time it has come up in this discussion. The meta of the current game is still pretty alt centric, so I think not permitting multilogging doesn't make sense since in RS it is commonplace.

Yeah except you would then have to make two accounts for each run. That's a bit much and you would have to use a third alt to fight off the storeroom keeper. Otherwise I would agree.

Multilog route saves a few minutes at most (at the most 3 from my current understanding) but could be as little as 1. Multilog strats are used twice, or three if you do ashes within the run. It is literally trading over quest items to complete a quest which is part of ironman mode and was implemented ON PURPOSE. It is within the spirit of the game. The other one is blocking Draynor which could be done even by doing it on someone else killing Count Draynor. If you accidentally do it and block a few hits, then I guess your run should be considered multilog. But if you do it with an alt, all you do is login. You don't even have to click through the welcome screen. To me and everyone else setting up an authenticator and verfying an email isn't fun, yet you still do that. Because it makes the run faster and more enjoyable throughout for that reason. Same reasoning applies here with multilogging. It doesn't deter from how the game is supposed to be played, isn't against the rules, and makes the game faster. For those reasons it should be allowed plain and simple. If you really feel so strongly against it then why are these opinions becoming vocalized now with no real reason? If you can feel bothered enough to set up an authenticator then you should easily be able to be bothered enough to make two alts which will already happen just by running the game twice.

Then put it in a different category I guess. But to say we should run normal accounts because it's faster isn't the point of the run at hand which is an ironman account run. There are limitations put in place to not require wealth before a run, which is what makes this category more enjoyable. By multilogging this limitation isn't voided you just have to spend some time collecting certificates, which is really easy to do. By only spending 20 minutes (5 minutes if the accounts are already positioned to farm certs) you can have your next 10 hours of runs be faster. And no, this category isn't any%, but the point of it is the same. To get to the end as fast as possible by any means necessary.

The only instances of multilogging in my route are to transfer over certificates then I logout and log into another account which will just be standing in a spot to block count draynor. Why would this be so difficult to implement in runs? If other players are able to affect the outcome of your run why can't you use another account to control the same variables and use it to your advantage? It doesn't make sense that other people can affect your run with their accounts, but you can't affect it with your own.

You can't tell me people wouldn't run a normal account over an ironman if items were already provided, that's why they run ironman. If this were the case ironman cguild% would not be the main category.

Captain, at least share an opinion as to why you wouldn't want multilogging or better yet provide a valid reason. There is no point in bringing up instanced servers because it has nothing to do with multilogging and you can't assume how they will function without a statement from Jagex. Why discuss something that may, and in my opinion most likely, will never happen?

That being said everything I have brought up with mulitlogging IS within game rules and speeds up the time. Multilogging has also excluded from the rules for the speedrun, so why are we bringing it up now? I've been using multiple accounts for RS speedrunning since I started doing it, it's not like it was a secret, but why is it now an issue? To me it sounds like some of you just don't want to be bothered using multilog strats, moreso than it being against the spirit of the game mode. Its Jagex's job to define the lines of what we can do within the game, not ours. If they leave in little things that can aid getting an ironman account to the Champion's Guild quicker, then why dismiss it?

Also there shouldn't be any limitations with multilogging unless it voids game rules. Anything goes.

The game is an MMO, and being an ironman doesn't exclude you from interacting with other players. My philosophy is that if other players are able to use their accounts to hinder your speed, whether it be on purpose or not, then you should be able to use multiple accounts in order to increase speed. This is something that is done in other games if a two player mode provides advantages over the one player mode. I'll include some examples that I know of offhand.

1. Super Mario Kart - In this game any% (and probably other categories) are done in two player mode. Reason being is because it eliminates one enemy AI from the race reducing RNG, but furthermore you can exit on the player 2 screen at the end of each race allowing you to transition into other races more quickly.

2. Crash: Mind Over Mutant - In this game by playing in two player mode in a single player run if you mash circle on both controllers you can infinitely fly, probably because when a player enters the game they are projected in the air and if you were to do this in quick succession you would keep popping out from where you would be at from the previous pop out and you can rinse and repeat it to do several tricks to lower the overall time.

I'm sure there are many others, but I think you get the point. Using two players in a single player game mode isn't something uncommon, and I'm suprised that this is something that is looked upon with scrutiny for something such as an MMO. Also the argument that it isn't how the game isn't supposed to be played, or that it is against the "spirit" of the game is really a cliche argument. I really can't think of a commonly ran any% speedrun that is ran with the "spirit" of the game in mind, or at least how the developers intended the game to be played. Although this category isn't any%, I think the same principle is applied. Also SoA is a quest that is available to ironmen and is intended to be done with two accounts. So saying that multilogging is completely against the spirit of the game mode really isn't accurate.

I think if bone drops and ash drops are allowed to be picked up by ironmen, then that should be utilized and looked at as an advantage. If you think opening 50 doors while you run will save time then go for it. It is definitely a high effort, high reward strategy. This whole discussion reminds me of when Amiibo in BotW was questioned for its use. In the end they decided to keep it in since it was official hardware and people used them to make the game faster. Of course there were people who still decided not to use them because to them it seemed like it was against the spirit of the run, and in turn achieved slower times, the decision stood to allow them and they were listed under the same leaderboards. I think we should follow in the same steps, but perhaps some new rules to counter abusing multilogging such as having a friend on the other account transferring items and opening doors or even a clan. I propose that if multilogging is used proof of play on both accounts should be present, even if it is only a small window on the screen of the other client, but it is enough to prove playing on both accounts.

Seeing a lot of comments that really aren't consistent. There will always be an aspect of pay2win in some aspect of speedrunning. As far as whichever game you're speedrunning, if you want to compete for world record times then you have to get the best console for that game or the best version of that game's console, as well as the fastest version of that game. If you don't have any of those things available, then you're going to need to spend money. Even in this case someone wanting to run the game on a Wii U won't be able to compete with people using the Switch, which makes sense. So in this case somebody wanting to compete for the world record speedrun of this game would already have to spend ~$450, so you can't really bring that up as an argument for the money aspect.

Since Amiibos are obviously the faster method, and are officially part of the game, banning them from any% doesn't make any sense since other games use external hardware as well. This should really come down to what makes the speedrun more enjoyable for playing and competition and not get this run to the point it relies solely on RNG. I don't know a lot about the run, so I'm only going to give examples which might not even be completely accurate, but they'll get my point across.

1. Only allowing one Amiibo per run. Since what I've read they are only allowed to be used once a day, messing with the device's clock itself to be able to use more than one or use one repeatedely should be absolutely not allowed. I've never heard of this being used in a speedrun.

2. Since I've been hearing about a treasure chest Amiibo that can give a 'rare' chance of giving good items early on, then category changes will most likely need to be a must. If the chance at getting an item is so rare it takes 15+ minutes just to start a run, then that category would most likely be less popular, but of course people would still want to run it to get the fastest time possible. Then there could be categories split for the main category which would be with the Amiibo, like Epona, that doesn't give RNG. Another category with the RNG based Amiibo. And another one that doesn't include Amiibos. If this doesn't end up being the case then the categories should be Any% and Any% No Amiibo since some people will prefer to run that category. Any categories other than the main one should be put in a tab named "Other".

Why disallow RNG based Amiibos even if they're faster? Because once somebody gets that perfect RNG run on top of skill of course the category will be dead. Nobody wants a reoccurence of when Gunner got the Pokemon Red WR using instant text bug then the community decides to ban it because it would kill majority of runs.

The lumbridge teleport would have to be incorporated into the run then. It's mainly for accuracy. And considering the servers are constantly disconnecting I don't feel as if that should compromise somebody's run.

I think for some changes that need to be made to the F2P quest speedruns are that to finish the run you have to teleport to lumbridge and get the in game time from Hans for better accuracy. Also this ensures that you don't have to play the entire time and you could do it over the span of a couple of days. Also you would be able to use logging out in certain situations for time save giving more of an edge to the runs. The Tutorial Island speedruns and any others that don't start at Tutorial Island would be recorded with a timer.

Also I don't see any point in having the Total level runs or the Get Level X in all Skills run because there won't be any competition for it and it would be played too linearly. Whereas in the quest runs there could always be time improvement made and RNG affects the run heavily making it not only skill based, but could produce multiple outcomes. I would like to see these sections replaced with member versions of the other leaderboard runs. I know you can set it to show only F2P or member runs, but in all honesty the runs are ran so totally different and have completely different routing it wouldn't be fare to castegorize them the same.

Also for the last thing I want to touch base on is whether using software like AHK is permitted as long as it's 1:1 input/output. Or even if it's not, I'm not sure how we should go about it.

I'll update this thread with anything else that I come by with.

EDIT: Also as far as item transferring and using other players. Is the use of other players permitted and can we use other people to do quests like Shield Of Arrav. The reason I have a problem with not allowing interaction with other people for benefit, is that other people within the game can also ruin your run as much as benefit it. The thing is you can't control other players from not ruining your run, so I feel as if using other players should be allowed and is more in the spirit of the Any% runs, but I'm curious to see what others think on the subject.

I need to have all of these points cleared with the other moderators before I can start routing my F2P nobeads run.

Here are all of my notes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifxpfqd6jhzrc64/All%20F2P%20Quests%20%25100.zip?dl=0

Hey guys it's EZScape here. For those who don't me I was the original person who completed the All F2P Quests Speedrun back in April which gained a lot of attention on Reddit, YouTube, and was even featured on a community channel. I was forced to quit speedrunning to continue with my YouTube series, but now I'm back and I'll be helping out with routing the new categories we have and creating some quality guides in my freetime. If anyone needs some help or has any questions feel free to PM me on here or Twitch and I'll get back to you. I still have some of my old notes for the speedruns I did a while ago including the ironman all quests, but never finished routing it. It's also based around gathering beads so that won't do. If mods would like me to post the guides and item lists just show me where they go. They have quite a few strats in them I haven't seen in other speedruns yet. If anybody wishes to talk to me the easiest way is to catch me on my stream where I will be running Barbarian Assault speedruns for the next few weeks. Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8StK4JT_A