I back the universal side, but we need to state it a lot clearer in the rules.

I am very much on the fence, in that, I am not too fussed either way. However, using mab's suggested ruleset would be a lot clearer in the future if something even more marginal than SJ was found. What if the same drama over SJs happens again with another trick. That is why I think removing the OoB restriction is a good idea, but I don't feel too strongly about either.

I certainly do, not sure if I can make a new category, but that would be awesome. I would still be willing to maintain the scoring ect, using as zorlax suggested, ELO.

Also, rapid just said this:

'i want mab's ruleset inside of me thats where im standing'

For me, it's a difficult call. I understand what is defined in the OoB ruleset, but thats because I was around during the discussions. Newer runners weren't. I do think it works, and blaino skip was overlooked, it should be banned if we follow OoB. But then again, how do we know what OoB really means in terms of the game. What if something even more controversial is found. What if for instance a boss key clip was found to skip a boss door, is that OoB or not?

I do like preserving rooster skip because otherwise a run can get too predictable, but rule sets are for guidelines and clarity, not because people want a trick in it.

For me, to make a decision, I have to weigh up something we already know and accept in the risk of any new tech giving us more decisions to make again, or changing the route because of a more clearer ruleset, and honestly it's tough for me to decide. The way I see it, we have two scenarios:

1. Remove OoB, allow rooster skip skip, allow quick D4 entry, allow flame skip skip, allow quick D4 BK superswim, allow blaino skip.
2. Stick with the current ruleset, have discussions everytime something is found, ban all of the above, allow blaino skip on existing runs, but ban in future.

1 gives so much more clarity and less ambiguous discussions if anything is found. 2 is a route we know, that most of us understand, there will always be doubt. Honestly, over the last hour I have changed my mind 3 or 4 times, swayed by what other people say, but I have to say for myself, I believe the clarity of removing OoB outweighs keeping it.

A few extra points I want to mention:

• I don't think we can speak for LA, LA is a different game.
• I back up the value of renaming the categories, I think All Dungeons should have (No WW) in the title still.
• On the topic of S&Q, I have been thinking, I don't think there is room for both categories, but that's another discussion for another day.

The main thing though, I do not want this discussion to last a month again. I would say put it to a poll ASAP, say by next friday it has to be decided.

My vote is a very slight 'yay', but my vote is also, let's decide on this before christmas.

I have found a consistent softlock solution. Jump to the edge of the first screen, face up, bring up the menu, then when you exit the menu, you buffer Bombs + Up + Right. The instant you begin to screen transition, let go of those button and buffer the menu off the screen transition. At this point 1 of 2 things will have happened. 1 - You haven't placed the 2nd bomb, so coming out of that 2nd menu, buffer Bombs + Up + Right, and then once the cutscene triggers, hold the left button until you come off the screen. 2 - You will have already placed the 2nd bomb and hear the music already. In this case, exit the menu, you can't input a movement here. Hold Left + Up or Left + Down, as soon as link moves, you need to hold just left for the 2nd input, until you exit the screen.

I have it here 11:30 in this video.

I knew someone would post a quad, and someone would post BB WR, most I have seen is 16 by aslion in a race.

So, I want to see the most stupid/ridiculous/broken/swag moments that you personally have witnessed during your runs / streams. This can include terrible or amazing RNGs, dumb tricks, and just nonsense in the game.

I will go first with something I found while running blind RBO earlier today.

I would be up for this, but it is very difficult to tell what is intended. Some glitches are very obvious, but I would say in regards to grey areas:

• Wall clips allowed (unless as you said, it's used for a glitch)
• Stealing from shop allowed
• Bomb arrows allowed
• Gohmas not required
• Arrows on anything allowed (lanmola included)

However, I am not sure on early D5 boss key skip, or the D4 shortcut.

Hmm, I guess im wrong lol.

This will allow flynn to get early D8, I think that's what he refers to. Also, this trick doesn't skip checks, only the trigger to start a cutscene, but if something has a check (like the instruments for the egg, or how many enemies are still alive for a kill all room), it won't work unless that check has been met. Most of the time the check is something in the room, so you can't do the trick on screen transition. The only time in the run where we see the check happening regardless of what's on the screen is the egg. Where my theory falls apart is D1, D3, D4, D6 and D7 opening cutscenes.

But, I want to sub leon first :(

In addition to this, you must not have fired a bomb arrow in the dungeon, arrows disables the event trigger from working in every instance. And I mean, if you are in a dungeon, no arrow in that entire dungeon, if you are in the overworld, no arrow in the overworld since the last dungeon.

Basically:

Frog song skip for instance, no arrows since D6 = works, any arrows since D6 = doesn't work, if that makes sense.

Also, quick tutorial for anyone not knowing how to get it to work:

Consistent D7 pillar break (only on the 1 that is actually worth using it on)

I am going to be pretty blunt here, SJ's killed the community because they took an entire month to decide on what constitutes OoB, and whether SJs were OoB, a month where people were thinking "if I do an SJ run and it's not allowed, I wasted my time" or "if I dont do SJ, and it is allowed, I will have to do a run again."

But then again, we did redefine some of the rules for clearer clarity. This requires no clarity, it does no break any rules set out for this category, doesn't even come close to it. The vast majority of the run remains unchanged for now. This does not skip instruments like the doghouse or superswim does, it is not nearly as broken as the glitches which are banned in this category. I would say the most equivalent comparison this has is the despawning in LA. It seems broken at first, but honestly, I think these are overhyped. At the moment the only things they skip is walrus (let's be honest, everyone hated the previous walrus skip), frog song and the ruppee route, which if you think about it, how much time do you really lose for ruppees compared to skipping the signpost maze, and marin's song. Means you don't need to sit through a 30 second cutscene. None of these really break the game too much imo, you can't skip keys or instruments, because it triggers cutscenes, it does not skip checks inside the game to make sure you are at the correct status to activate those cutscenes.

For new runners, marin song skip is completely free, it's only frog song skip (because it forces rooster skip) and walrus skip (because of softlocks) that make it difficult for newer runners. But we still don't know the true extent of this yet.

Agreed, it breaks nothing. Tricks get found all the time, otherwise runs get boring without learning new stuff. No-one complained when this was used to skip final boss text, it's only because it takes a considerable time off the run. You don't have to do all of what this trick can achieve if you don't want. I won't be doing walrus skip because it's too risky, that's my choice as a runner, but I don't want it banned just because I don't feel like doing it.

Yeah that's what im thinking deln, it's like we have categories, what if we have a 'category' for the weekly leaderboard? It has the same ruleset as no S&Q, except that it has to be proven to be done during that week. Also, could we link the google doc somewhere on the LADX SRC page?

As for the 'state in advance' how long in advance? Sometimes I only decide 30 minutes in advance to run, or do we set a time each week? I also think, some people (particularly me) picnic on stream a lot, but still have the recordings of the run. I think to check whether someone did it during the time, we can check past broadcasts, as for making sure the run is legit, I would recommend accepting youtube videos.

Also, no resets might be hard to enforce, but would a gentlemen's agreement be enough for that?

I don't think SRC can submit like a time to run before, so we would need another mechanism for this too.

Also, cut off time for runs, what time in the week should we cut it off for the next week? I am thinking sunday evening.

I was also toying with the idea of only 1 run per person, but there was no way to stop people just submitting their fastest run on the saturday night for instance. I am not sure I fully understand what you suggest with signing up in advance for a time.

So, that idea for the scoring system seems solid, and it looks like it works. For data entry and maintaining it, I would be fine with doing that myself. You suggest using google documents for the points leaderboard? In that case, could we maybe add an SRC category for the weekly leaderboard, and someone wipes it weekly. Verifying it wouldn't involve the whole process verifiers need now, I don't expect anyone in the community would use emulator functions, but verifying would basically be making sure the run actually happened ect.

Hey fellow LADX speed runners.

So I had an idea the other day that could bring more activity to the community and add a little bit more competition from week to week. I was thinking, what if we had a weekly leaderboard for the main category. Every Sunday, we wipe the leaderboard, and award points based on each runner’s position on the leaderboard. This leaderboard is completely separate from PB leaderboards. Only runs that have been completed during that week can be submitted, they don’t need to be verified officially, but there has to be a video link with timer.

First off, who would be for this idea?

Secondly, any suggestions on what kind of points system we should use?