To me, the difference between the costume swap technique and this one, is that the former is already gaining a lot of attention and investigation, despite probably being a living miracle of a trick. Whereas general IGT pausing abuse strategies must have been possible since the dawn of video-games, but actually seeing speedrunners use them as we speak is also unbelievably rare.

I don't have memory of many games that actively use the latter. Some Sonic games, Minecraft (which later adressed it), and some other game kinda like Time Crysis. Outside of these, I just don't have mental picture of it. simply just not a picture in my mind It's just nowhere to be seen. As if it was simply not a natural thought for more traditional speedrunners. I acknowledge that this is a narrow point to make for me, especially because time and time again you proved to me you had the cutting edge against me lol. And I haven't been in many IGT communities. So that point only relates to me, but I still strongly doubt pausing strategies will take much relevance.

People are way more likely to use the costume warping technique (and for PC users, to find a way to bind the support move button into a single input device) than something that's not quite real-time speedrunning and that I always keep forgetting it even exist in the first place. Even though if anything I'm the first one to encourage players to have fun exploring this path and potentially finding interesting things.

It would be great albeit specific that there were to exist leaderboards site like src where you could submit lowest IGT challenge runs. But I don't think that's our job here. Else everything will become cluttered with fundamentally incomparable achievements.

Anyways, you're right that it seems most people are leaning onto this decision, so let's call it over.

I'll make the leaderboard and rule changes later this evening, and we'll finally accept ILs runs. This post will be updated when it's done.

And then, we'll move to full-game runs discussion.

Interesting, Amoser. (src leaderboard he is referring to https://www.speedrun.com/s2/levels)

I'll make it clear immediately, I have absolutely no inherent problem with abusing pause, and if anything encourage people to explore it. Low in-game times challenges are a truly underrated gameplay branch. It doesn't hurt to consider.

But until clear potential is found and developed with this type of play for this game, I am not sure if it is important enough to be added in the board. Not that it would take long to. This is because our board is most centered about traditional speedrunning. That's all we currently have at our disposal to care about.

So it looks like we'll probably ban pausing for ILs, but eventually add it in some shape of form if it later gets relevant and semi-popular.

I'd like that we get something out of the way when it comes to ILs.

I think we should consider banning the use of pause during them. Pausing in this game stops the timer.

Although I don't think the following problems will concern the vast majority of us, it can be exploited to make certain tricks slightly easier, read ahead, or to simply catch a break. And since these ILs usually are very short, I don't think this will bother anyone, but I'd like to ask regardless.

If it is accepted, I think I will will add a simple rule about it in the ILs section. It will thus be officially open for new runs.

In the meantime I'll work on adding boss time-attack ILs

Timing method is IGT so it's easy to set up

Only concern is that future updates could change the fights somehow idk But that seems unlikely And so far we do not know if updates have fixed the game in any way

Edit : Wait, actually I think that pausing during these should** be banned So to prevent pause abuse The ILs are also short enough to the point that there'd be no reason why you wouldn't be able to resist not pressing it

Edit² I will wait for people's thoughts before doing anything with the ban Added some bosses, but I need the exact names of the remaining bosses in English as they are in the game The IL category names are also intentional, as it will also be the place for stage ILs in a future. We could also add stuff like 100% and so on

Edit²² Same deal with the extra stages

Edit²²² Used placeholders for them. The IL board for bosses and extras is mostly operational

A lot of the discussion has happened on the Discord server

Later today or tomorrow I'll summarize everything that has been said in this thread for accessibility and so we can soon decide how to further shape the board to be operational

Did.

Rules will get made as we all get familiar with the game. By then, submitting runs should become official soon.

Game is out too soon for us be able to properly design categories, or even consider speedrunning it at all. The game should first and foremost be enjoyed to some extent before starting to get weird with them. We've waited so long.

For now, and because we don't know the future yet, we will probably settle with simple "beat the game and get to credits as fast as possible"-like any% categories, for both individual games. Naturally, Others categories, and an IL section may be considered as we go and depending on activity.

For now I'll go set up the main frame of the boards.

This will be the main thread for holding discussions about adding rules, categories... This is a presentation post that might be updated as time goes on with extra information. Actual discussion will occur below.

As of the 30th of july 2022, the leaderboards are open. It took 23 days, or a bit more than three weeks. Thank you for your patience.

Put the game cover without the characters as background, thanks BobbyKaze. jpg file weighting .559 mb

For the logo, go to https://www.speedrun.com/klonoa/thread/ux107

Change also applied to the Phantasy Reverie Series game board.

Updated the background to be ~~0.3 mb heavy instead of 1.7, so it should load 5x faster Mistakes were made

Finished my 0% popkaless series : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1GOxYfabbWIHQj6axuMeDzVlibdt6t-P

Ok. There hasn't been a lot of input, but I don't see why people would be adamantly against it. So let's make the change for all of the boards. (done !)

InfinityGene (have an account here + other sites) on the site very kindly and out of nowhere designed a Klonoa themed logo for us to use in our leaderboards ! I currently have only attached it to this board, to probe opinion. We will obviously carry on with good reception.

I seem to have very faint blur with my screen resolution and everything (https://imgur.com/a/L2a8j0s). But unless that affects a lot of people as well, and is actually considered annoying, we probably won't do much about it as we can't be expected to satisfy everyone's screen tantrums.

This is about general changes that can be applied to all boards. Individual changes will be discussed within their games. I think ? Or should we always discuss such changes here everytime now ? For now, we'll handle it the former way.

elsiz agreed to this.

In there you have access to info about the game, a walkthrough, a comment section and other misc : https://taldius.itch.io/klonoa

After some time, I changed my opinion again. Yea I know, it feels like it changes every day at this point. But this time might be the last one this topic will have from me.

Having both run types on the same board is hardly a problem at all. Yes, the variables can't be seen without the player hovering their mouse over it, but it's still something the site has accounted for in the design. Not greatly, but better than nothing. Trying to avoid it sure is desirable, but is it an absolute must ? No, it would be ridiculous to prevent us from using features. Especially because this is a thing : https://www.speedrun.com/mkw (https://imgur.com/a/ybzoQzj) Unless the src team fixes these glaring oversights, its fair to say we'll have to put up with these things. And it's not like we'll somehow manage to stay pure and avoid them with the Klonoa games. KBV will undoubtedly make use of more variables in the future, and we'll meet the same variable abbreviation we have now with the stage variable.

Outside of that, this configuration basically works the same as sub-categories, but it has the cutting edge advantage that we're able to compare all the different run types under the same board, always a cool little thing to play around. In fact, the timing definition change was more or less having this in mind. Would be a disappointment to not go all the way with it. In fact, the leaderboard linked above seems to do the same. And if you want a specific type of run, you can always filter runs. The downsides are negligible in comparion to what it allows us to do.

So I'll update all vision according to this.

I think I'll also move 100%NG+ in misc. Considering its history, it's difficult to imagine such an unpopular category to ever evolve in the times to come, even with a larger overall game activity. It's also far from being optimised. And that way all visions will have a buddy.

I'll finally still keep the extra board as it is. This clock death trick allows runs to be faster by seconds which means a ton. Both with and without simply cannot be compared. Also simplifies things.

Wii and WiiU console runs are allowed. Emulator or USB loader runs share their own sub category due to having much faster loading-times than what's possible on console. But this doesn't concern time-attack mode.

Wii Mini would first require testing to see how it is like compared to its neighbors, then we can determine how it would be implemented it in the leaderboard.

This will naturally update as things evolve.

I just now added the category !

To test the water and see how these thing showed like, I have currently put it in the misc tab category, as well as created sub-categories for the stage variable to compare it to 100%NG+. It doesn't look very bad at all at all honestly, and both are very visible. I though that there would be an unfolding button for the player to select what they want to see from, like it happened with the extra's 4 possible run types. But that doesn't seem to be the case with only two possibilities (or short enough names ?).

Not only that, I have also done the same thing with the extra stage, both in any% and 100%. And have tweaked the rules accordingly.

Depending on reception, we may reverse these, or make similar tweaks to 100%NG+. But whichever way it is, all visions is now operational !