🍓 BUHBAI OUTDATED 🍓 EVANSFIGHT OVERRATED 🍓 LONG HAVE WE WAITED 🍓 KORALREEF ACTIVATED 🍓

Leon has actually already run this, so if you really want it to be considered all you have to do is do a run so that there's 2 runners

The latest steam client update removed the ability to download older patches of games through the steam console directly. This means we have to now resort to a much more complicated alternative for now. Please read every step of this guide carefully.

1. You need to aquire .NET Core from microsoft's website (https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download/dotnet-core), make sure to download the correct version for your operating system (Windows x64 for most users, but please check this).

2. Download the DepotDownloader tool from github (https://github.com/SteamRE/DepotDownloader/releases) and extract it somewhere you'll remember.

3. Open the folder containing "DepotDownloader.dll", type "cmd.exe" into the address bar and press enter to launch command line from that location.

4. Now you can enter the commands to download the downpatched files for whichever Hollow Knight version you need. Check this guide (https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/guide/yl0m6) to find the steam console command for the patch you want. Each one is "download_depot 367520 367521" with a 3rd number on the end which is the manifest ID. Take this number and replace <manifest> in the following command as well as replacing <username> and <password> with your steam account's details. If you have Steam Guard active you will be prompted for the code like usual.

dotnet DepotDownloader.dll -app 367520 -depot 367521 -manifest <manifest> -username <username> -password <password>

For example someone trying to download patch 1.2.2.1 with steam name "hunter2" and password "12345" would enter the command dotnet DepotDownloader.dll -app 367520 -depot 367521 -manifest 648876203478229944 -username hunter2 -password 12345

5. Now with the correct files you can continue with the downpatch process like normal.

From Xero

My thoughts: - Any% No MMS gets merged with Any%. I feel way less strongly about this now that we have a No MMS runner in the form of spm, but since I’ve been the main guy in arguing this, I’ll write down what I’ve said about it:

• The category remains short, easy to learn, a good category for newcomers. There aren’t any real runkillers, the trick isn’t cancerous like MMS was by making you play blind and is really easy to do. I know there’s a lot of people who come into the game with NMMS. But I would definitely argue this is because Bastion is a gateway game, and most of our runners have this game as their introduction to speedrunning. Snowy’s tutorial says it’s an Any% one, and most newcomers come looking to run what is the most popular category name outside of speedrunning. Looke, for example, was looking at the Any% leadearboard when comparing his times, and not at the NMMS one.

• I don’t see a real reason why we should cap core duping to grabbing two cores. In my opinion, if we’re willing to allow grabbing more than a one for one relationship on cores, capping this to “two” feels incredibly artificial. We’ve even looked into grabbing three cores multiple times, with no one suggesting it’d become an entirely new category.

• NMMS isn’t the only category we have to “play more of the game”. There’s plenty of categories nowadays, all of which range very wildly in duration. They aren’t “Any% Categories”, but at this point, I don’t think this is either.

• I have seen some amount of people talk about how this would be “deleting years’ worth of category history”. I disagree with this completely. The old runs are still going to be on the leaderboard anyway, and aren’t going anywhere.

• Above all, it feels to me like we're trying to preserve a route for the sake of it, trying to shield it from any kind of meaningful development no matter what. And I don't think that's healthy in a speedrun setting

- Any% definitely becomes FS, regardless of what happens with NMMS. I don’t think anyone is willing to argue this.

- Assuming we end up banning FS from the current Any% NMMS, I’d like to see Any% YMMS preserved somewhere in misc tbh. I don’t think any of us is gonna do more runs of it, so it might be more effort than it’s worth, but I still think MMS offers a way of playing the game that’s very different from any other category, being forced to play with the menu on the screen and relying on sound queues. It’s not like I feel strongly at all about this though, and if it’s more trouble than it’s worth to preserve it, then so be it.

- ASL rules remain the same, stating that it’s core duping that is forbidden. If we find strats to dupe another item, be it for experience, upgrades, or whatever, that actually saves time, I’d welcome it.

- DC/AIC allow FS. As for AW, I’d leave that up to the people who actually run it. I remember looking at the route when we first found this and not being able to do anything with it though.

Guess I'll inaugurate the thread. For reference, I've been running using the trick this entire week minus on Friday when I went out and didn't have access to my PC, so anyone who has any doubts about how to go about performing it or setups can just check my channel. I would say I get the trick around 90% of the time: Lucar can confirm or deny this statement since he's normally there when I run.

I see literally no "valid", real, reason to ban this trick. Not only do we more or less know that it can't be used anywhere else (with Lucar having done a rundown of the entire game trying to use it everywhere), I also don't think being able to skip more of the game with it would warrant a ban unless we were talking about skipping whole areas, and even then, I don't think we should ban it, rather, make it its own category. We don't have any game-wide banned glitches either, nor did we ever have them as far as I know.

Now, to address some points that were made against the trick:

-The trick may be PC only: I don't know when we started caring about this. Ever since I started playing the game, we've found a fair amount of new tricks, like YGS or the ones regarding save points. No one has bothered to test these tricks in any platform that isn't PC, and, to add insult to the injury, only two runs out of 31 submitted to the leaderboards are on a platform that isn't PC. Should we get any new runners, they most likely will be running on PC too (Ever since I started running, we've gotten 3 people who've expressed interest in running the game, all of them on PC. I would also like to note that all 3 have been turned away by EFS, so, if we're going to bring new player experience into this, I would like to submit a petition to ban EFS too). Not only that, but this argument only addresses the Warpless categories. I would like to remind everybody that the category defined as MAIN, I repeat, the MAIN CATEGORY of the game, the one every runner sees when they click on Dust on speedrun.com, is Any% Warps, a category that is PC only. If we really cared about other platforms this wouldn't be the main category. And even then, since the category is PC only, bringing consoles into banning this trick from it would be completely irrelevant. I would also like to point out that we have a history of allowing console only glitches (Not even that, PS4 only glitches mind you) in the form of the PS4 Gaius Skip, currently showcased on the 117% WR run by Will (Siete) which stood for a good 2 months as the only way of going straight into the final phase of Gaius, a much bigger timesave than the 25-30 seconds we're discussing right now (Gaius Skip has been timed to save between 3 minutes 30 and 4 minutes, making it 6/7 times as worse). I don't know why the arguments that were presented back then are suddenly void now, but I would like to bring them back up and tell everyone that there's plenty of games that have a single leaderboard for the game even with version differences (the examples used back then were Crash, Sly 1, Mario Kart ).

-It's external manipulation of the game: This quite literally doesn't make sense to me: We're not setting a launch option, we're not modding the game, we're not using a third party program: We're alt tabbing to abuse a game mechanic that was undoubtedly intentionally programmed in, the auto pause feature. To me this makes as much sense as saying that force closing the game with alt f4 is external manipulation (Dark Souls and Child of Light close the game like this, to give some examples) or turning your console off (Majora's Mask does this for example)

-The trick looks hard/precise/dumb/etc

I don't think difficulty of a trick should ever be a reason to ban it. The majority of the speedrun community seems to agree with this point since everyone has heard of frame perfect/pixel perfect tricks.

As a closing statement, I would like to say that, like every single other trick, no one is forced to go for it. Just for starters, I'm currently the only runner who does Early Cirromon Bomb (10 seconds), Bopo Skip (15 seconds), Sorrowing OOB (20 seconds), Sorrowing OOB 2 (15 seconds), Elder Skip (3 seconds) and Double Cannon Fire Skip (20-25 seconds depending on RNG). And not even I go for Spike Bomb, which theorically could save 10 seconds. All of this amounts to way more than 30 seconds which is the amount of time a TAS performed DSCS would save.

Should anyone make an argument that I have not covered here, I will try to edit my post to cover it

My thoughts, note that I only run ASL and that I entered the community at the same time as Wingspan, even if I've done a fair amount of runs more than him

Any% allows MMS

New sub category, Any% NMMS. To avoid clutter we just make this a subcategory kind of how Dishonored 2 has subcategories for characters or Hollow Knight has subcategories for different OOBs or NMG

ASL: I personally would hate seeing HG cutscene skip go. I understand just banning MMS is the cleaner cut rule, and the better one, but I would appreciate it if we could only restrict its use to cutscenes. This way we don't end up with a heavily grandfathered in leaderboard either. Keep Building Menu storage in, allowing Fast Tazal

Making a push for AW to be a main category: Don't care either way.

Ban pre-run menu storage, just seems dumb to have it in. Keep videos as is, no need to fix something that isn't broken